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Time to go play the piano.

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"Either way, and to put it more simply, if two people are arguing the existence of God and each one is certain, then the burden of proof clearly lies with the one making the positive claim. I don't see how that can be disputed."



No it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with ANYONE making a claim. Positive or negative, regarding anything - not just god. And I'll go into philosophy if you really want some "arguments" towards "life" after death. Eh?

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
It was only a matter of time. ha

I'm amazed the thread made it this far....


Hitler was a christian, you know. laugh ha

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Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Mark_C
It was only a matter of time. ha

I'm amazed the thread made it this far....


Hitler was a christian, you know. laugh ha


He thought he was.

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Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified."



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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And the prize goes to Damon for being the first person in this thread to mention Hitler.


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Originally Posted by lostaccato


"Either way, and to put it more simply, if two people are arguing the existence of God and each one is certain, then the burden of proof clearly lies with the one making the positive claim. I don't see how that can be disputed."



No it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with ANYONE making a claim. Positive or negative, regarding anything - not just god. And I'll go into philosophy if you really want some "arguments" towards "life" after death. Eh?


Well done for ignoring both the arguments I made and generally accepted philosophical convention, I guess. Good luck getting people to prove those negatives.

As for your offer - no thanks. I somehow suspect that if it were something actually convincing I'd have heard it anyway, and I've had quite enough religious sophistry for now - it's hardly what I came to this site for anyway. Music is far more important to me than my non-belief in all mankind's various deities. As my man Frank Zappa once said: "music is the only religion that delivers the goods".

Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".

Last edited by The Hound; 05/05/12 04:12 PM.

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Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 ("Pastoral") First two movements; Piano Sonata No. 21 in C major, Op. 53 ("Waldstein") First movement
Schumann/Liszt - Widmung
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I don't get upset about these things. If someone wishes to pray for me or pronounce a blessing directed towards me, or pray for me according to their religion I would take it as it is intended - well wishes for me. A compliment that they would think to do so. No matter their religion. But that's just me.


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Originally Posted by The Hound

Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".


Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things.... smile


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Originally Posted by Ken Knapp
Originally Posted by The Hound

Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".


Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things.... smile


Well, I called someone ignorant earlier - it's still up there^^ but it wasn't meant to be disrespectful. The comment basically proclaimed his/her ignorance of what philosophy even is. But unfortunately it looks like the discussions are ending here. At least, for me - because my offer was declined. This was a fun thread though, ha!

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Originally Posted by Ken Knapp
Originally Posted by The Hound

Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".


Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things.... smile


Agreed, the discussion has been reasonably civil (as one should hope). It was just that the person who closed that other thread (which was also civil) said something to the effect that the mods on here generally liked to completely avoid these kinds of topics, as the chances of flaming do rather increase the longer they go on.

Not that I'm trying to influence anything or that I particularly care if it stays open or not. smile


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Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 ("Pastoral") First two movements; Piano Sonata No. 21 in C major, Op. 53 ("Waldstein") First movement
Schumann/Liszt - Widmung
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Originally Posted by bennevis
What it all boils down to is, do you believe in the supernatural? grin


By jove bennevis, the more you say the better I like you. You're so nice about it too. grin

Oh, concise too!

Bech

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Last edited by carey; 05/05/12 07:50 PM.

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Originally Posted by bennevis
What it all boils down to is, do you believe in the supernatural? grin


Yes! If, by supernatural, you mean this existence! grin


Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski
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From my understanding of Calvin College, which also has a very well known seminary, and is a Christian organization, they pretty much pray before all events. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

To my knowledge, all performers (I've never asked so I am presuming this is how it works) are "invited" to perform here and if not invited are then accepted if they ask. However, there are some, that are never invited back for various reasons or if they ask, are refused. Usually, this will be due to some sort of "condescending type of an attitude" that is coped by some of them. Sarcastic, rude, condescending, overly demanding etc. That simply is NOT tolerated at all here. Or it could be the type of music they perform. Unchristian like music according to their standards.

As for, do they tell them before hand about prayer? I do not know but, seeing that they are playing on a campus that is a 'private' Christian College, with a large Seminary, they must know prayer is a very likely event and of course, is their prerogative seeing as it is Calvin's property. I think, if whomever, doesn't like it, they do not have to come otherwise, there's the door... smile


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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified."


Goodness me! That is kind of intolerant, pogo! A musician offers her music to all humanity regardless of their creed. How about taking it graciously as a well intended compliment? What do you loose? As far as not recognizing the hard work and practice, I have news for you. When and if you start performing to capacity audience in major halls, you should know that many of the folks who will applaud or even give you a standing ovation, probably think you are just talented and have no idea that you slaved for hours over the music. What are you going to do? walk out on them too?

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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified."


I love you so I'm going to bite my tongue (difficult, though it may be). We'll talk soon, I'm sure.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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Thank you for the very useful information Jerry.

And I hope that you will join me in stating that Michigan and Grand Rapids are anything but "backward" (someone in the thread referred to it as that). This person has probably never visited our beautiful state, full of tolerance, diversity, and physical beauty.

I didn't mention Jerry in my earlier post because I wasn't sure that he wanted to be identified, but since he identified himself, I think you should also know that the audience applauded his remarkably quick piano repair. Several people who were sitting directly behind me were expressing doubt the ENTIRE time he was up there.....because he came from seat in the audience, they assumed he was just an audience member (very funny indeed). When he fixed it, they said......can't you predict it......."It is a miracle!!" (sorry I don't know how to do that "hide the text/click to reveal thingy."


Christine










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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
And the prize goes to Damon for being the first person in this thread to mention Hitler.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldn't have done it without my good friend Charles. wink

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Originally Posted by GlassLove


And I hope that you will join me in stating that Michigan and Grand Rapids are anything but "backward" (someone in the thread referred to it as that). This person has probably never visited our beautiful state, full of tolerance, diversity, and physical beauty.



Just to clarify, I didn't say it was backwards, I said a friend who was born and raised there said so. I did say this story and some details about your state university campus fit right in with what she had told me.



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