 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
34 members (Carey, Dore, ElaineAllegro, Bach_ingMaddie, doctor yahya, DC_1, 9 invisible),
374
guests, and
518
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 158
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 158 |
Time to go play the piano.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447 |
"Either way, and to put it more simply, if two people are arguing the existence of God and each one is certain, then the burden of proof clearly lies with the one making the positive claim. I don't see how that can be disputed."
No it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with ANYONE making a claim. Positive or negative, regarding anything - not just god. And I'll go into philosophy if you really want some "arguments" towards "life" after death. Eh?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,696
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,696 |
It was only a matter of time.  I'm amazed the thread made it this far.... Hitler was a christian, you know.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447 |
It was only a matter of time.  I'm amazed the thread made it this far.... Hitler was a christian, you know. He thought he was.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,738
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,738 |
Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified."
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,503
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,503 |
And the prize goes to Damon for being the first person in this thread to mention Hitler.
Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 235
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 235 |
"Either way, and to put it more simply, if two people are arguing the existence of God and each one is certain, then the burden of proof clearly lies with the one making the positive claim. I don't see how that can be disputed."
No it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with ANYONE making a claim. Positive or negative, regarding anything - not just god. And I'll go into philosophy if you really want some "arguments" towards "life" after death. Eh?
Well done for ignoring both the arguments I made and generally accepted philosophical convention, I guess. Good luck getting people to prove those negatives. As for your offer - no thanks. I somehow suspect that if it were something actually convincing I'd have heard it anyway, and I've had quite enough religious sophistry for now - it's hardly what I came to this site for anyway. Music is far more important to me than my non-belief in all mankind's various deities. As my man Frank Zappa once said: "music is the only religion that delivers the goods". Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".
Last edited by The Hound; 05/05/12 03:12 PM.
Working on: Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 ("Pastoral") First two movements; Piano Sonata No. 21 in C major, Op. 53 ("Waldstein") First movement Schumann/Liszt - Widmung ------------- Steingraeber B-192 Kawai CA97
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,721
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,721 |
I don't get upset about these things. If someone wishes to pray for me or pronounce a blessing directed towards me, or pray for me according to their religion I would take it as it is intended - well wishes for me. A compliment that they would think to do so. No matter their religion. But that's just me.
Ken
Hammond Organ Technician Piano Torturer
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,721
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,721 |
Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".
Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things.... 
Ken
Hammond Organ Technician Piano Torturer
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447 |
Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".
Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things.... Well, I called someone ignorant earlier - it's still up there^^ but it wasn't meant to be disrespectful. The comment basically proclaimed his/her ignorance of what philosophy even is. But unfortunately it looks like the discussions are ending here. At least, for me - because my offer was declined. This was a fun thread though, ha!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 235
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 235 |
Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet, actually, given what happened to the one about "divine insipiration".
Well, thus far (according to what I have read), nobody is making implications about people being ignorant, stupid, lacking mental horsepower, etc. for their beliefs. From what I have seen it's just a back and forth discussion. Now if we get into those types of things....  Agreed, the discussion has been reasonably civil (as one should hope). It was just that the person who closed that other thread (which was also civil) said something to the effect that the mods on here generally liked to completely avoid these kinds of topics, as the chances of flaming do rather increase the longer they go on. Not that I'm trying to influence anything or that I particularly care if it stays open or not. 
Working on: Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 ("Pastoral") First two movements; Piano Sonata No. 21 in C major, Op. 53 ("Waldstein") First movement Schumann/Liszt - Widmung ------------- Steingraeber B-192 Kawai CA97
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 851
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 851 |
What it all boils down to is, do you believe in the supernatural? By jove bennevis, the more you say the better I like you. You're so nice about it too.  Oh, concise too! Bech
Last edited by Bech; 05/05/12 03:54 PM.
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,803
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,803 |
deleted
Last edited by carey; 05/05/12 06:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 790
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 790 |
What it all boils down to is, do you believe in the supernatural?  Yes! If, by supernatural, you mean this existence! 
Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828 |
From my understanding of Calvin College, which also has a very well known seminary, and is a Christian organization, they pretty much pray before all events. I'd be surprised if they didn't. To my knowledge, all performers (I've never asked so I am presuming this is how it works) are "invited" to perform here and if not invited are then accepted if they ask. However, there are some, that are never invited back for various reasons or if they ask, are refused. Usually, this will be due to some sort of "condescending type of an attitude" that is coped by some of them. Sarcastic, rude, condescending, overly demanding etc. That simply is NOT tolerated at all here. Or it could be the type of music they perform. Unchristian like music according to their standards. As for, do they tell them before hand about prayer? I do not know but, seeing that they are playing on a campus that is a 'private' Christian College, with a large Seminary, they must know prayer is a very likely event and of course, is their prerogative seeing as it is Calvin's property. I think, if whomever, doesn't like it, they do not have to come otherwise, there's the door... 
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,886
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,886 |
Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified." Goodness me! That is kind of intolerant, pogo! A musician offers her music to all humanity regardless of their creed. How about taking it graciously as a well intended compliment? What do you loose? As far as not recognizing the hard work and practice, I have news for you. When and if you start performing to capacity audience in major halls, you should know that many of the folks who will applaud or even give you a standing ovation, probably think you are just talented and have no idea that you slaved for hours over the music. What are you going to do? walk out on them too?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651 |
Of course it's offensive. Thanking god for this recital? Did god work and practice, or did I? If that happened to me I'd leave and say "if you're thanking god for my 'talent' and this recital, god is surely great enough to present you with an evening of music without me being here. Then the gratitude would be justified." I love you so I'm going to bite my tongue (difficult, though it may be). We'll talk soon, I'm sure.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 769
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 769 |
Thank you for the very useful information Jerry.
And I hope that you will join me in stating that Michigan and Grand Rapids are anything but "backward" (someone in the thread referred to it as that). This person has probably never visited our beautiful state, full of tolerance, diversity, and physical beauty.
I didn't mention Jerry in my earlier post because I wasn't sure that he wanted to be identified, but since he identified himself, I think you should also know that the audience applauded his remarkably quick piano repair. Several people who were sitting directly behind me were expressing doubt the ENTIRE time he was up there.....because he came from seat in the audience, they assumed he was just an audience member (very funny indeed). When he fixed it, they said......can't you predict it......."It is a miracle!!" (sorry I don't know how to do that "hide the text/click to reveal thingy."
Christine
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,696
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,696 |
And the prize goes to Damon for being the first person in this thread to mention Hitler. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldn't have done it without my good friend Charles.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,118
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,118 |
And I hope that you will join me in stating that Michigan and Grand Rapids are anything but "backward" (someone in the thread referred to it as that). This person has probably never visited our beautiful state, full of tolerance, diversity, and physical beauty.
Just to clarify, I didn't say it was backwards, I said a friend who was born and raised there said so. I did say this story and some details about your state university campus fit right in with what she had told me.
|
|
|
Forums42
Topics205,357
Posts3,066,088
Members100,690
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|