Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge?

I think you're unique.

I've sometimes wanted to do that, but never have....well actually in some 'special situations' I have, like when I spent 2 days with a former teacher to prepare for recitals and he didn't want to charge anything, and when teachers have given me double lessons but only wanted to charge the regular amount. But aside from those times, I felt it would actually be sort of an insult, in an odd way, to try to pay more -- as though telling them that their own pricing was wrong. And I think it basically would be. The most I've done in such situations was to express my gratitude and let them know (as you said) how much I got from their teaching (or whatever the service was) and express my great gratitude.

I studied with Daniel Pollack for 10 years at USC where I did my Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate with him. I also studied with him privately in his home studio for a few summers. What do you want to know? I'm only $50/lesson, by the way.

He used to give masterclasses every summer where students got about a full hour's lesson (albeit in front of a group), and it was fairly affordable. That might be a good way to go, if he's still doing that. I know he stopped giving that class for a while.

Primarily pedagogy. You know, she just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and had a chance to study with a number of the great early 20th century masters as well as Fleischer. She has a brilliant mind and memory, and can impart huge numbers of seemingly trivial technique details which all add up to greatly increasing the musical mastery of students. Our work divided into two stages - beginning students, getting them off on the right foot (so to speak) with hand technique, and high school repertoire for both ending students and those choosing to continue at conservatory.

But as they correctly say, you cannot teach effectively what you don't know, so she ends up teaching us as students as well. It is an amazing experience for those of us who participate, but humbling to be taking lessons on seemingly "elementary" material in front of a dozen or more of our peers, all of whom have advanced degrees and are actually accomplished pianists in their own right!

John, in other words these are group teaching situations. Master classes for piano teachers. Are these organized privately in the Seattle area? How often do they take place?

I'm suddenly floored by the math of this. You are paying $180 an hour, along with a dozen or more of your colleagues. That's over two thousand dollars an hour for Ms. Tan. Perhaps John Perry and Daniel Pollock should take lessons in career management from her!

I'll confess I got pushback for this initially from teachers, but it didn't stop me.

I recognize that I am highly dependent on smart professionals who give me great help, both in my music studies and in my day job. I want help from the best in their fields, giving me THEIR best, perhaps in part because they know I recognize, appreciate, and value their assistance.

I've done a lot of dumb things in life, and a lot that haven't worked, but this attitude and practice -- what some might call "overappreciating" skilled and valued professionals -- has never failed me.

I think you got lost in the math.

First (and mainly), what's with the multiplication? It seemed that the rate was for a private lesson, not a master class. And also, in master classes you don't usually (if ever) have that many people playing.

No, they are not group lessons. Each one of us gets an hour, and we each pay for an hour. But we sit in on each others' lessons. You can learn a lot about teaching and musicianship this way.

1. So Jane Tan is teaching a dozen or more hours of these piano teacher lessons back to back, John? I don't get it. That sounds as maniacal as John Perry. Do you all go out for meals together, or does Jane spring for a pizza and beer?

2. Are some of the teachers just auditing, and do they pay less?

3. Is this held in a piano teacher's home? An institution? A retail piano dealership?

Well, it's over 3 days; we have other activities, such as piano teams and student master classes, plus teacher lectures. We normally brown bag lunch and dine somewhere near the Westlake Center. Sherman-Clay (Steinway) provides music teachers in the Puget Sound area wonderful offerings activities such as this, and we get to play on some superb instruments as a result. Auditing is possible, if you've studied with her some time, but I don't think anyone is doing this. For the record, teaching 6 - 8 hrs straight is not a chore for me, and probably not for many teachers. It's what we love doing.

I think in his interview he said he was ill or something for a long while and out of action. So in your last year of studying with him what was he charging per hour?

I only took private lessons with him during the summers of my undergrad years ('95-'98), when his official fee was $150. Throughout graduate school, I studied with him only through the school (although lessons were occasionally held in his home studio). I once calculated that it was actually cheaper to take lessons with him through USC than privately, despite the expensive tuition at that school.

Now that I can believe. He's almost a god in the music world, certainly a legend by virtue of his career and having placed in the 1st Tchaikovsky Competition, even if it was 10th place. If he can get $350/hr I imagine Cliburn could command as much as $500, maybe more considering the "shine" it puts on a rising artist's CV to have name like Cliburn as one of your teachers. Wonder if Cliburn does teach.

I have a student-psychiatrist--and a fine pianist who took lessons and insisted I should charge more as he considered me a good teacher and worthy of a higher charge. So, he arranged to be the last student of the week and would take me to dinner after the lesson unless he was on duty at the hospital. And later, he called me to his house and his piano had been re-furbished and he wanted me to see it. I walked in his house and a new artist bench was placed at the piano and as I rounded the corner, I saw another one! But no piano! He has bought one for me also as a 'payment' for the services since I wouldn't raise my fees.

I charge what I think the general population would think is fair and equitable. High prices do not necessarily indicate good instruction. But some take lessons--if only a few--with well-known artists/teachers to have it included in their CV/Resume and thus impress the knowledgable and others.

Yes.

Peter: Where did you get the idea that they were either 'group/master class' or 'back-to-back'?


I'm sure he could get more than that, without any extra consideration from that last thing you said. Whether he'd ask for that much is a different story; the main factor would be just if he wants to teach the person. (Provided he teaches, which I don't know that he does.)

what is he like as a teacher? In his interviews, he sounds a bit grumpy or irritable, though clearly passionate about his field. You must have thought you were benefiting greatly if you did all of your undergrad and grad work with him.? Did he perform much? Could you work with him on contemporary pieces? Did you have to audition for his studio specifically?

Mark, I'm always capable of misunderstanding things. But John had mentioned that a dozen teachers may sit in on his individual lesson with Jane Tan, yet each teacher receives his or her own hour lesson with this pedagogue. So I figured that the lessons would be back to back. IOW, I observe your lesson, and then you observe my lesson. That was the way Schnabel taught, for example, as well as some of his prominent successors.

I didn't realize this was a three-day workshop being offered. I thought perhaps Mme Tan retired to Seattle from the East Coast, and that John sees her every week as his regular piano teacher. But looking Jane Tan up on Google, I now see she is presenting these master-teacher gigs here and there around the US, sometimes in partnership with Seymour Bernstein.

Sounds like these events could be very stimulating, although I don't know anything firsthand about her.

I don't think he does. I read an interview he gave recently. He holds informal music soirees frequently and probably gives advice here and there. He's well-set financially from what I gathered so money is not an issue. He's real night-owl, often practicing till 4 or 5 in the morning and then sleeping until 2 or 3. Maybe that's what did his career in---not being able to keep a concert schedule in sync with an-out-of-sync sleep cycle.

I did think I benefited from him a great deal, although students generally stayed with their teacher throughout their studies. Some would shift around from studio to studio, but that wasn't taken very well by the teachers vacated. Pollack seemed disappointed when students would leave for someone else--though that was relatively rare--and I heard the same of other teachers. It was sort of frowned upon by all parties to change teachers, so I never seriously considered it. Had the prospect of changing teachers been more welcome, I might have moved to Stewart Gordon at some point, as he is very reasonable, scientific, extremely knowledgeable, but I was never too keen on anyone else there as my major teacher--certainly not Perry, for reasons I can't post here. I studied with others in piano ensemble, accompanying, Baroque interpretation, etc., however, which gave me some experience with the other studios.

Pollack could be as cantankerous as he seems on the Youtube videos, but that's mostly an act--his outer persona, which involves a very dry, sardonic wit. His teaching was a mixture of musicality and body mechanics. There was always a great deal of emphasis on how to move the hands and arms, finger position (when curved and when flatter), hand position, etc. This was huge for him, as it was for his teacher Rosina Lhevinne. Speaking of her, he would quote her during every lesson multiple times. Sometimes I felt like I was taking from her. I find myself quoting him constantly in my own teaching, a habit I must have picked up from him. Besides body mechanics, he had clear musical values that we would all come to understand after a few semesters or more. Legato was life and death, as was playing melody louder than everything else, and voicing to the top. Seems like basic stuff and it is, but so few people do it. Many folks even with advanced degrees are totally uninterested in voicing, playing all notes of a given chord at about the same volume. For Pollack, that was inexcusable--far more egregious than something like playing wrong notes. I would say that despite the heavy emphasis on technique building that was the ostensible hallmark of his teaching, it was in the area of musicality (such as the sort of aspects mentioned above) that his teaching was most impactful and transformative to me.

His specialty was romantic music, but he loved teaching all types of music. I was always especially interested in contemporary music, which he happily worked on with me. He could always spot little hidden points in the score that I often overlooked.

I never auditioned for him specifically, but he was at my audition for the school itself and must have approved me for his studio. It was magical being his student, and I fully knew that at the time. He had a larger than life personality, and everything he said somehow seemed immensely fascinating. Still, I have to conclude that there are far more economical ways of getting a quality piano education, even of learning exactly what he teaches. You might go to a community college where his former students teach. Then, when you're ready to give a recital and have all your pieces pretty polished already, spring for a private lesson to get his take on the finishing touches.

Steven,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply.

That's a wonderful glimpse of study with this distinguished teacher. Many thanks.

Any time you wanted to tease us a little more about the studio life of John Perry, we're waiting.