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Hi,

I'm considering buying a used clavinova CLP-330. The owner claims to have bought it in 2008 at a price of $2,200. From the pics, it looks like Ebony Polish finish.

The owner lists $1,800 as the asking price, but says the price is flexible.

The piano also looks in pretty good condition and the owner claims he played it less than 10 times, so it should be good as new.

In case it matters, this is being sold in New York.

What do you think is a fair price for a CLP-330 with the above specifications?

I'm new to the forum so please be kind. Thanks!

Welcome to the forum, ggould.

As someone pointed out here very recently, DPs tend to lose around a third of their value as soon as they leave the showroom. There are a few sought-after instruments/brands (such as Nord) that buck the trend, but it's a good rule of thumb. Once a DP gets to 4-5 years old, I'm usually looking at a value of around 50%. Obviously a dealer reselling will ask more, but as technology moves on, and models are superseded, the value of older ones plummets (at least until they reach vintage stature).

To me, a four-year old mid-range Yamaha DP that originally sold for $2,200 would probably be worth in the region of $1,000 to $1,300, depending on condition. Others may disagree, of course, and it does depend on how much you want that particular instrument. However, I'd be very much disinclined to pay more than $1,500 max.

There is such a thing as an average selling price. But good luck finding that. The information is not readily available.

But there is no such thing as a fair price.

The only kind of price is the one that buyer and seller agree upon.
The $2200 is quite possible.
I'm guessing that you've only seen a photo?
If so, then when you go to see the unit make sure of the finish.
The PE finish is a good deal more expensive (but worth it, IMO).

Here's the key ...
When a seller is flexible, it's your job to do some flexing:
- Decide on your maximum price.
- Then go to see the piano. Look it over carefully. Evaluate its condition. Spend lots of time.
If you think the piano is suitable ...
- Ask whether he'll accept a check.
- If so, offer a $1200 check.
- If not, offer $1200 cash-in-hand.
- Find out what he says. If he declines, ask him what would it take to close the deal?

AIUI the CLP-330 has now been discontinued, but there are some still lying around new in shops. In the UK a new one can be had for around £1,200 (without the extra shininess)

I'm not sure of US prices (maybe a look at the prices paid thread will give a clue), but I would have thought the replacement, the CLP-430 (without the glossy finish) could be had for sub $2,000 in which case (to me the extra prettiness is worth approximately nothing) $1,800 seems rather ambitious.

I agree that it does seem one heck of a cheek to charge substantially more for a different type of finish (it's like they used to do with metallic paint finish Ford Capri's, before ALL cars became metallic).

However, there is a big differential. For the Yamaha YDPs and CLPs it starts at €300, which is 400 US dollars or £250. For more expensive pianos, the extra charged is even more: 500 US dollars extra for the CLP470, for example.

If the finish on this second hand model is near perfect, I suppose this is retained value, and worth taking into consideration.

1200 - 1250 dollars sounds like a good price to offer.

Could someone confirm that a brand new regular finish CLP-430 costs below $2,000 in the US?




I've seen really old Calvinovas on craigslist that are ~10 years old and are being sold for almost 1k. Here is one example:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/2980537720.html

Even though the price was 4k (which is much higher than the brand new price of a CLP-330), it seems like a CLP-330 would be a significantly better purchase than a 10 year old CLP-990. Do you agree? Given this, do you think $1,200 may be too low?

As an update, I saw the piano, it is indeed ebony polish and it is in great condition. I offered $1,500 for now, and the owner still seemed very hesitant. I had initially offered $1,400 by email and he said he wouldn't sell it at that price...

BTW, toddy, I'm also interested in looking at some Rolands. Would you mind sharing what was the price of your HP 302?

The CLP990 is better than nearly any of the newer Clavinovas. They were way ahead of their time in 1999. The main difference between it and those 10 years newer is 10 years of wear.

If the CLP990 is in top condition, I'd strike a bargain with the seller.

+1

MacMacMac and voxpops, could you elaborate on why the CLP-990 is better? I would think at least the sound would be of higher quality in newer models.

Also, according to http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musi...italpianos/clp_series/clp990/?mode=model, the CLP990 has 192 note polyphony. Do you have any idea if that's accurate? Newer models seem to have 128 note polyphone, so I find it really surprising than a 10 year old model would have more than many current models! Is it possible it's a mistake?

Thanks for your advice.

Hello ggould, Yes, the HP302 is probably just about discontinued now, but it cost me €1350 last year (1775 USD). But in the USA, I think the (non-piano console) FP7f from Roland is probably a better deal, as it's much cheaper, and apart from the looks and maybe speaker, identical or better than the HP302.

However, since the HP302 (and 305 and 307) are now discontinued, you might get a bargain. IMHO, these are great pianos - the best in this mid-market price range from what I experienced.

The CLP-990 has a higher spec in some regards than most newer Yamaha models. This may or may not make it sound better - you'd need to try it - but it is impressive, nonetheless. It was the spec combined with the price that made me think it might be better than a five-year-old model at twice the cost.
However, compared with a new Roland featuring the SuperNATURAL sound engine and the latest PHAIII action, there probably isn't much contest.

These are the features that struck me as excellent for less than $1k - even if the design is well over a decade old:

* 88-key sampling. This is almost unheard of in Yamaha DPs, where stretching of samples to cover three or four notes is the norm. It's also a 5-layer sample set.

* Key-off samples and soundboard reverb - these add realism beyond just playing back the tone samples. Not all new digital pianos feature these effects

* Spruce keys and "damper" sensor. This is probably one of Yamaha's most realistic-feeling actions (although I have not had the pleasure of playing it).

* 60w per channel sound system. If it's in good condition, this should provide great reproduction.

*192-note polyphony. No, I don't think that's a mistake - even though 32 was the norm at that time. It should allow for the playing of very complex pieces. However, sometimes the printed spec has to be taken with a grain of salt, as it depends how powerful the processors are, and how well the technology has been implemented as to how well the piano will perform in reality.

* Nice cabinet - if that's important to you.

I would reiterate, though, that if it doesn't sound great to you, it doesn't matter how good the specs are...

Here are links to the DPBSD analysis for both pianos:
CLP990

CLP330 (text)

CLP330 (screen grabs)

The piano market is peculiar. Sure, you'd expect better pianos over time. But if the public will buy mediocre quality from you, then that's what you manufacture. So for the past dozen years there have been precious few improvements. (To be fair, there are a few exceptions, namely the Roland super-natural lineup (sound) and the Kawai keyboard actions.)

I'm guessing that the technology that went into the CLP990 back in 1998/1999 was created to produce a top-end digital ... and that Yamaha has been using mostly the same chip set ever since.

Perhaps the follow-on lower-spec pianos have the same electronic guts, with the better features turned off (except on the high-priced models)??

If so, I wish there were a community of hackers who could do for the Clavs what other hackers did for the playstation a decade ago: hack the guts to unlock what's there. I'm guessing that the lowliest Clav is just one hack away from becoming the equal of the top-of-line model.

I can vouch for this comment . 192 polyphony and a beautiful piano sound.



I own a Roland V-piano and also a Yamaha CLP990. I enjoy both actions and sounds however the CLP990 feels like a Grand Piano while the Roland PHAIII does not in my opinion at all. Both are a pleasure to play however the CLP990 does sound in some respects better than the default V-piano sound outright without tweaking. the 5 layers and each note sampling make it better sounding than any of the newer Clavinova's. I hold down the sustain pedal a whole lot when I play and do not hear any note drop-offs at all, while I did hear some drop off on the V-piano which has 128 polyphony playing the same passages.

The great thing about the CLP990 is the ability to change sounds while playing, for example adding the choir or strings when needed without any glitch in sound.

I checked out the piano that you are talking about. Its in really good condition. But I still feel that 1.8 K for a 4 year old piano is not worth it. The owner is saying that compared to a new clp 430 (which does not have too many improvements) it is reasonably priced. I would have got it immediately if it was 1.3-1.4K, but not more than 1.5K for sure.

Haha, it's nice that you also took a look at it! I agree it is overpriced, no matter the condition. $1,800 is 81.8% of the original price. I offered $1,500 and the seller seems like they will not sell for less than $1,700.

What other options are you considering?

voxpops, MacMacMac, Kona_V-Piano,

Thanks for your wonderful feedback about the CLP-990. It does seem like it has a really good sound from what I can see from YouTube videos. You've convinced me to take a look at it, since the CLP-330 owner is very reluctant to take offers below $1,700, even though it seems no one has offered anything better!. I hope to take a look at it this week/weekend and will report back!

There is a yamaha 230 for 900 at craigslist. I am debating that. The owner claims its 2.5 years. Its either that or the YDP series. I am not sure how bad they are compared to clavinovas.

Never mind my comment above about the CLP-990 sound from YouTube videos. I was looking at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtrtBwxMPI

But apparently the guy is using "The Grand 3" by Steinberg. I'm assuming that means he recorded his playing through his computer and then used this software which provides its own sounds?

Update:

I saw the CLP-990 today and it does seem good, although a bit old. The keys felt heavier than average, and heavier than the CLP-330 keys. Is this possible or is it just my imagination?

The owner asked originally for $950, but he would take my offer of $750. Do you think a CLP-990 in good condition for $750 is a good deal?