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I need some opinions about this purchase
#1888671 04/30/12 01:07 AM
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Secondo Offline OP
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Hi--would appreciate anyone's opinion on this situation. I purc hased a Steinway B and was told that it had no Teflon (it is from the 1960's) and that is also how it was advertised. When my tech came to go over it (after it was delivered to my home), he said they took out the teflon from the flanges and shanks, but it was still in the back action and in one other place. The piano plays fine right now with no clicking, but my tech was really taken aback when he read the ad and I told him that the seller told me there was no teflon. I got a good price on this piano. The bid to replace the remaining teflon with cloth bushings is close to $4000. The seller says that his tech will replace the teflon if the bid from my technician is higher than what his technician can do it for, but that means them taking the piano back to the city where I purchased it, 150 miles away. I don't want to have the piano shipped back. Any ideas on this???? thanks!!! and I hope this doesn't sound like a bunch of garble . . .

Last edited by Secondo; 04/30/12 01:09 AM.

Baldwin SF-10 320152, Marshall & Wendell, Steinway B
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1888677 04/30/12 01:30 AM
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Price, good deal or not, has little to do with representation (especially by a dealer). If you were told there is no teflon, and you relied on that representation in making the purchase, that warrant guides the sale. You can rescind the whole transaction.

That being said, if you are happy with the way the piano plays and want to keep the piano, I would ask the selling party what his tech would charge for the job, and tell him to pay you that or you will rescind. That way, you can continue to play it until an issue arises, and then decide the next move. I would personally replace the parts with Renner parts and you would then have a fantastic instrument.



Russell I. Kassman

FORMER: US Rep.for C.Bechstein - Sauter; Retired founder/owner R. KASSMAN Piano; Consultant - GUANGZHOU Pearl River Piano Co.

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Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1888703 04/30/12 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Secondo
Hi--would appreciate anyone's opinion on this situation. I purc hased a Steinway B and was told that it had no Teflon (it is from the 1960's) and that is also how it was advertised. When my tech came to go over it (after it was delivered to my home), he said they took out the teflon from the flanges and shanks, but it was still in the back action and in one other place. The piano plays fine right now with no clicking, but my tech was really taken aback when he read the ad and I told him that the seller told me there was no teflon. I got a good price on this piano. The bid to replace the remaining teflon with cloth bushings is close to $4000. The seller says that his tech will replace the teflon if the bid from my technician is higher than what his technician can do it for, but that means them taking the piano back to the city where I purchased it, 150 miles away. I don't want to have the piano shipped back. Any ideas on this???? thanks!!! and I hope this doesn't sound like a bunch of garble . . .

Actually it sounds fairly typical.

In the 1960s Steinway used Teflon bushings in all of the action parts they installed in NY-built pianos. (Hamburg instruments continued to use Renner-built parts with traditional felt action centers.)

At some point the wippens and hammershanks in your piano were replaced either with later Steinway-made parts or with Renner-made parts built to fit Steinway actions. This is a fairly common procedure. I assume the hammers were also replaced at the same time; this would have been common practice.

That the back action was left original is not unusual. There is very little stress on these parts and it is unlikely that they will ever give any trouble. They were, however, built rather crudely—as were all Steinway-built action parts of the era—and best practice does call for replacing them along with the rest of the action parts.

I’m not sure just what your technician meant when he said there were Teflon bushings “in one other place.” These bushings were only used in the wippens, hammershanks and back action.

Your piano will probably function quite nicely even with the original Teflon-bushed back action but, since it was advertised and sold as having ”no Teflon” parts I agree with Russell; you should ask for compensation from the seller. Having the original back action with Teflon parts does probably lower your piano’s resale value by some amount regardless of how well it otherwise performs. You should ask for either the amount your own technician would charge or what the seller’s technician would charge (including shipping costs) or settle on some amount in the middle. (I might add, though, it should not be necessary to ship your piano anywhere to have this work done. It is quite possible for this work to be done in your home. Even though it will take a couple of trips to accomplish the work given the cost of piano moving the final cost will probably be lower.)

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
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Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1888740 04/30/12 06:52 AM
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Excellent advice, Del. As usual... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1888757 04/30/12 08:05 AM
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Great advice above from both Russ and Del.

I too would ask for compensation based on the liklihood that the re-sale value of the piano is diminished by the Teflon in the back action.

Steve


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Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1888855 04/30/12 11:55 AM
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There are probably Teflon bushings in the pedals, where they work better than felt bushings.


Semipro Tech
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1889078 04/30/12 08:31 PM
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Thanks for all the help. The bid is for replacing the remaining teflon in the damper action and repetitions (I am assuming one of these is the back action). The hammers and shanks were replaced. Most significantly, you say that the work can be done at my house. For me, once I own a piano, I am reluctant to have it moved--I don't like change and all that. I would not rescind the sale--but I do believe that had I known there was teflon, I would have bargained with the seller and since the piano was represented to have none, I went with the asking price. I really really appreciate the informative and knowledgeable responses! Thanks and I will update what happens.


Baldwin SF-10 320152, Marshall & Wendell, Steinway B
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Secondo #1889719 05/01/12 11:13 PM
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Find out how much his tech is charging and tell him to send you a check in that amount plus some. And Of course, get more than one price.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: I need some opinions about this purchase
Dave B #1889742 05/02/12 12:06 AM
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Their technician is going to come to my home to look at the piano and I will ask him for a copy of the estimate. This should be happening next week or so. Thanks!


Baldwin SF-10 320152, Marshall & Wendell, Steinway B

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