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Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Yuri Pavlov] #1888718
04/30/12 05:39 AM
04/30/12 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Yuri Pavlov
Where are you hear music? And where you hear .. instrument?


I hear music in both. It's obviously better and richer the acoustic recording (nobody here said that a digital piano equals a good condition concert grand). Nevertheless there is still music and expression made on these digitals videos. I think that these renderings are far, far away from that "only pressing the buttons" concept.

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Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: CarloPiano] #1888722
04/30/12 06:01 AM
04/30/12 06:01 AM
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To the OP:

I personally find all DPs actions (leaving aside that on AvantGrand which is a real grand action) always lighter than those on grands. They are quite close to the real thing but they lack, always in my humble opinion, the ability to play trough the ground, it is, trough the deep of the key that Anton Rubinstein used to say.

Nevertheless I think that modern top digital actions are very good and convincing today, and plus the new more expressive sound engines many things can be done on them, although you may need a few minutes to get used when switching to a real grand. Nothing too bad. I still prefer practicing on my HP-305 than on my acoustic upright when I cannot play on the grand.

Just personal opinions. smile

Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: CarloPiano] #1888734
04/30/12 07:33 AM
04/30/12 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CarloPiano
I personally find all DPs actions (leaving aside that on AvantGrand which is a real grand action) always lighter than those on grands.

Grands themselves can vary quite a lot. It sounds like you've played heavy ones, if you find that DPs are always lighter. I find most DPs heavier than most grands I've played.

Along these lines, in this very thread, ryanct feels his MP6 is heavier feeling than a good grand, and in the "Kawai MP10 review" thread, whitfit feels the same about his MP10. I've played numerous grands, but not (as far as I can recall) a Kawai, so I wonder if Kawai's grands tend to be heavier feeling than most?

Similarly, I find that many Yamaha DPs (i.e. CP33, CP300, P155, CP50) feel heavier than most grands, including, as it happens, Yamaha's own. That's why I was happier to see the lighter CP1 and CP5. Compared to most grands, the Korg RH3 action also feels heavy to me, as does the Fatar TP100 (used in Numa Piano, Nord Electro 3HP, and Kurzweil SP4-8, though the only one of those I've really had a chance to use is the Numa Piano).

Originally Posted by CarloPiano
they lack, always in my humble opinion, the ability to play trough the ground, it is, trough the deep of the key that Anton Rubinstein used to say.

Could you elaborate on that a bit?

Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1888759
04/30/12 09:06 AM
04/30/12 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Smiles466
We are looking at the Kawai CA 63; however, I read somewhere about kids will not be able to develop good finger strength if they practice on a DP vs. an AP??? Is it true? Also there are different setting on the "hardness" of the key i.e. how hard one has to strike the key, then how can you tell which setting to set it on? I appreciate any guidance from all of you. Thanks.


Nearly all modern DPs have adequate key weight. (CLP 430 and 440 have heavier keys than nearly all Yamaha grands which is not good) However 'power control' is the more important thing to worry about when practising on a DP. I recommend to practice on a DP only if the volume level is more than %75. If you cannot, then use headphones. Many players lose the sensitivity of their touch if they practice on a DP with a low volume like %50. Control is the power for players.

On CA63 'heavy touch' is the closest setting for my taste to an AP.


Ozgur Unaldi, pianist
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1889020
04/30/12 07:26 PM
04/30/12 07:26 PM
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We have pretty frequent threads here in which people complain that thier digital keys are heavier and require more work than acoustics. CarloPiano is the first person so far that I have seen say the opposite.

The force it takes to play a key differs by whether the pedal is pressed, and digitals tend to locate themselves in between those two (since their weight is always the same). Most digitals (it seems) tend toward or past the heavier weight experienced when the pedal is not depressed.

Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: gvfarns] #1889027
04/30/12 07:51 PM
04/30/12 07:51 PM
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We have pretty frequent threads here in which people complain that thier digital keys are heavier and require more work than acoustics. CarloPiano is the first person so far that I have seen say the opposite.

I've been pretty consistent stating that digital keyboards are easier\lighter\whatever to play than acoustics.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1889029
04/30/12 07:54 PM
04/30/12 07:54 PM
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Quote
Nearly all modern DPs have adequate key weight. (CLP 430 and 440 have heavier keys than nearly all Yamaha grands which is not good)


why would that be bad

Last edited by JulianG123; 04/30/12 07:54 PM.

Julian
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Ozgur] #1889048
04/30/12 08:17 PM
04/30/12 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozgur
[qI recommend to practice on a DP only if the volume level is more than %75. If you cannot, then use headphones. Many players lose the sensitivity of their touch if they practice on a DP with a low volume like %50. Control is the power for players.


Aha I'll call it the "Ozgur Setting" and this is the kind of advice I come here for.


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Just starting "piano advantures" - at page 50-60-odd.
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1889089
04/30/12 09:41 PM
04/30/12 09:41 PM
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I think what ever piano or keyboard she likes the best. You mostly develop finger strength on your own. I mean, if your focusing on her finger strength for the sake of something she doesn't like. What's the point? Being a musician or piano player isn't about how strong your hands are, it's about technique and how you use them. But for hand strength in general. I actually believe in weighted keys on certain digital pianos since some are weighted pretty hard. But i do recommend a acoustic piano if you have the more for more natural development. No mechanical item in the world can fully duplicate the feel of a real piano.

Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Dave Horne] #1889102
04/30/12 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
We have pretty frequent threads here in which people complain that thier digital keys are heavier and require more work than acoustics. CarloPiano is the first person so far that I have seen say the opposite.

I've been pretty consistent stating that digital keyboards are easier\lighter\whatever to play than acoustics.


Hmm, guess I missed it. I disagree with your opinion. But then again, I play an MP8, and that mother is heavy.

Last edited by gvfarns; 04/30/12 10:03 PM.
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1889114
04/30/12 10:33 PM
04/30/12 10:33 PM
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My experience is that digital keyboards have a much less complex feel than pianos. They feel more like organs than pianos.


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Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: Smiles466] #1889270
05/01/12 07:24 AM
05/01/12 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Smiles466
I read somewhere about kids will not be able to develop good finger strength if they practice on a DP vs. an AP??? Is it true?
Piano is one of those strange instruments. Unlike most instruments, a pianist has to play the piano presented to them, instead of their favorite one they carry around. This presents it's own challenges, since every piano is different.

There is no perfect acoustic piano, they all suck in their own special way. You've got to press this key a little harder, or this one a little softer. On piano A the bass notes must be pressed harder, while piano B we play them softer. A good pianist can make this changes almost subconsciously.

A DP doesn't present these challenges. A trained musician can hear a pianist who cannot make these subconscious adjustments, and in some extreme cases, even a novice can hear that somethings wrong.

Saying that, this stuff does really matter to the people who go on to become classical enthusiasts, but the reality is that the majority of children who take piano lessons don't continue with them, and the majority of the people who go on to perform are going to find themselves on a DP more often than not.

So, I would agree that using a DP exclusively would limit your daughter's future, but only as far as a highly competitive and exclusive part of piano playing that is overrepresented in these forums.


Dr. Appleman, former NASA engineer, Empire of Earth and B.S. of Ninjutsu at MIT.
Re: Digital Piano vs. Acoustic Piano - Finger strength [Re: JulianG123] #1890065
05/02/12 04:40 PM
05/02/12 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JulianG123
Quote
Nearly all modern DPs have adequate key weight. (CLP 430 and 440 have heavier keys than nearly all Yamaha grands which is not good)


why would that be bad


I didn't say 'bad' but let me explain why it is not good for me.Because CLP 430 and 440 force me to practiice way differently than I would do on a grand piano. This difference includes more amount of energy to spend for playing a work and this doesn't mean that you're improving your finger strength. You just use some other muscles and arm/body weight that you never need on a grand piano.


Last edited by Ozgur; 05/02/12 04:44 PM.

Ozgur Unaldi, pianist
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