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#188864 - 06/30/07 04:20 AM Petrof?  
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Ron Gardiner Offline
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Heard from a colleague that "Petrof is done". This came from a reputable dealer who heard from his Petrof DSM. Was told that Petrof may reappear in the future, but from a different factory. Does anyone here have additional info? This is currently in the category of hearsay, although the sources seem quite reliable.


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#188865 - 06/30/07 04:35 AM Re: Petrof?  
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Ron Gardiner,

A friendly suggestion: Perhaps you can consider obtaining confirmation from other industry insider sources before posting here?

That might be more effective (and I'd argue also more fair to Petrof) than trying to obtain such confirmation/information from this mostly consumer-oriented, very public, Internet bulletin board.

#188866 - 06/30/07 05:20 AM Re: Petrof?  

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That makes sense to me. I have lately seen some unbelievable "deals" on new Petrofs from dealers. Like $23000 for a new 7 foot piano.

A second dealer told me they would not be getting any Petrofs for a while. He said if they did get them they would be way more expensive. I found this statement interesting since I had been seeing these "deals" all over the internet on new Petrofs.

A third dealer told me they didn't know if they would be getting any new Petrofs....he didn't elaborate.

The above comments were made to me while I was shopping in stores that carry Petrofs. I was not shopping myself for a Petrof, although I was playing Petrofs because they were in the stores...as I was shopping.

There was something different in the way they were alluding to the Petrofs....that's all I can say...

#188867 - 06/30/07 05:59 AM Re: Petrof?  
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#188868 - 06/30/07 08:49 AM Re: Petrof?  
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I wondered about this. Petrof is very big in Europe. It would appear that Geneva, not Petrof,is in trouble.

This could be trouble for American Petrof and Nordiska owners who have warranty issues. Warranties are handled in the US through GIC.


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#188869 - 06/30/07 10:47 AM Re: Petrof?  
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I wonder if the move to have the "Weinbach" line made in China has something to do with this.


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#188870 - 06/30/07 10:49 AM Re: Petrof?  
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Could be!!!


Michael

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He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#188871 - 06/30/07 12:00 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
Originally posted by karenabcde:
That makes sense to me. I have lately seen some unbelievable "deals" on new Petrofs from dealers. Like $23000 for a new 7 foot piano.
Isn't that actually a 7'8" piano?

#188872 - 06/30/07 01:03 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Mic, please don't start rumors. G.I.C. is not in any trouble. They are very,very strong. None of this will effect Nordiska or Weinbach. Just let it play out. Lots of courts to go through yet.

#188873 - 06/30/07 02:05 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Ron Gardiner Offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Axtremus:
[QB] Ron Gardiner,

[A friendly suggestion: Perhaps you can consider obtaining confirmation from other industry insider sources before posting here?]

My disclaimer was intended to be fair to Petrof. I tried to make it very clear this was an unsubstantiated rumor. However, there are Industry insiders here that I respect, and this was a way to get their input since I don't have their email addresses,such as Steve Cohen and Vince.

In my view, losing Petrof would not be good for our industry. and there was no harm intended by trying to get accurate information in order to squelch the rumor mills. Nothing is a stronger equzalizer than the truth.


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#188874 - 06/30/07 02:39 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Sir Lurksalot Offline
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Interesting quote from one of the above-linked articles:

Quote
"GIC was selling our pianos in the USA at a cheap price. We want to compete with the most expensive German producers," Petrof executive and co-owner Zuzana Ceralova-Petrofova said.
Does this mean prices will increase significantly when a new distributor takes over?

#188875 - 06/30/07 02:43 PM Re: Petrof?  
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The thought crosses my mind that this could be an example of where a minimum resale price could be construed as pro-competitive.

#188876 - 06/30/07 03:41 PM Re: Petrof?  

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One of my dealers told me his next shipment of Petrofs would be much more expensive. I am not knowledgeable about piano retailing....I am just relaying what he told me.

#188877 - 06/30/07 03:59 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
VGrantano wrote:

Mic, please don't start rumors. G.I.C. is not in any trouble. They are very,very strong. None of this will effect Nordiska or Weinbach. Just let it play out. Lots of courts to go through yet.
Quote
karenabcd wrote:

One of my dealers told me his next shipment of Petrofs would be much more expensive.
Let's see... piano X used to sell for $n today, then tomorrow, seller is asking for 2*$n... why? Not because the product itself has "dramatically improved," not because some serious marketing/endorsement deals have changed public perception of brand value, but because the manufacturer and the (former) distributor are set to lock in court battles that may go for months and years, and there may (or may not) be a new distributor (who may or may not have a good track record) that retailers have to deal with. Yeah, that's going to work.

#188878 - 06/30/07 04:03 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Axtremus:
Quote
VGrantano wrote:

Mic, please don't start rumors. G.I.C. is not in any trouble. They are very,very strong. None of this will effect Nordiska or Weinbach. Just let it play out. Lots of courts to go through yet.
Quote
karenabcd wrote:

One of my dealers told me his next shipment of Petrofs would be much more expensive.
Let's see... piano X used to sell for $n today, then tomorrow, seller is asking for 2*$n... why? Not because the product itself has "dramatically improved," not because some serious marketing/endorsement deals have changed public perception of brand value, but because the manufacturer and the (former) distributor are set to lock in court battles that may go for months and years, and there may (or may not) be a new distributor (who may or may not have a good track record) that retailers have to deal with. Yeah, that's going work.
I'm with you, Ax.

BTW, I've got a couple of Petrof IVs. Get 'em while their still affordable! wink


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#188879 - 06/30/07 05:14 PM Re: Petrof?  
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VGrantano, what then is the status of warranty coverage in the US for Petrof owners?

#188880 - 06/30/07 05:30 PM Re: Petrof?  
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I'm only in a position to guess,but I would think there is nothing to worry about. If G.I.C. sold it I'm sure it will be covered.They are a classy company.

#188881 - 06/30/07 06:26 PM Re: Petrof?  
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from Steve Cohen
Quote
Let's see... piano X used to sell for $n today, then tomorrow, seller is asking for 2*$n... why? Not because the product itself has "dramatically improved," not because some serious marketing/endorsement deals have changed public perception of brand value, but because the manufacturer and the (former) distributor are set to lock in court battles that may go for months and years, and there may (or may not) be a new distributor (who may or may not have a good track record) that retailers have to deal with. Yeah, that's going work.
Yes! This mess makes Bohemia's adoption by Bechstein look really positive by comparison.

Quote
Zuzana Ceralova-Petrofova, the owner of the Company, stated: "PETROF boasts a 140-year-long tradition and belongs to the absolute top of the piano manufacturers.
This statement from Rich Lindahl's Petrof press release citation could be interpreted to mean that Petrof belongs in the absolute top of the piano manufacturers and expects to be paid accordingly, regardless of Geneva's estimation of what price the US market will bear.

The statement also fits in with Petrof's groundwork last year to get the CAFIM initiative going and obtain a certification for Petrof that would put it in an exclusive fraternity with some of its higher-priced German brethren.

Three questions

1. Is the Weinbach fallboard name Petrof's property or Geneva's?

2. Does anyone here in this forum know anything about counterfeit Petrofs appearing in the US?

from the same press release
Quote
The PETROF Company is aware of the US market's vulnerability to the flood of counterfeits of its pianos made by Asian manufacturers abusing the PETROF brand.
3. Where's John Elliott?


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#188882 - 06/30/07 07:09 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
Originally posted by VGrantano:
Mic, please don't start rumors. G.I.C. is not in any trouble. They are very,very strong. None of this will effect Nordiska or Weinbach. Just let it play out. Lots of courts to go through yet.
I'm not starting rumors, Vince. That took place in the very first post. I am interpreting what I read. If I wanted to start rumors there is a lot more I could say.

There is clearly a huge dispute between producer and distributor. Whatever happens, it isn't going to be good for consumers in the meantime.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#188883 - 06/30/07 07:13 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Quote
Originally posted by karenabcde:
That makes sense to me. I have lately seen some unbelievable "deals" on new Petrofs from dealers. Like $23000 for a new 7 foot piano.
Isn't that actually a 7'8" piano?
Yes, a Petrof II is 7'8". I have ruyn across one at an incredible price too, but it was some time ago. IMO the II is a whole 'nother animal from the III, IV and V. A very impressive piano.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#188884 - 06/30/07 07:34 PM Re: Petrof?  
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If I've learned one thing in life, it's that everyone - except the attorneys - loses when parties go to court. Another issue... Dongbei made Nordiska's. Gibson just bought Dongbei. Can you say "my competitor makes my pianos???"

#188885 - 06/30/07 07:51 PM Re: Petrof?  
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At one time I had heard that GIC owned the rights to market the "Petrof" name in the U.S. Petrof may need to change its logo if it reincarnated itself next year.
A few years back Petroff factory got all full of itself and tried to leverage its prices up a tier or more. GIC slapped them into submission by witholding any orders until they knuckeled under. Maybe this is more of that?


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#188886 - 06/30/07 09:25 PM Re: Petrof?  
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i am curious why GIC would go so far as to file a bankruptcy petition against Petrof. the bankruptcy judge apparently found no reason to send Petrof into bankruptcy.

this doesn't seem to me to be a slapping into submission over an issue such as pricing. it seems to be an attempt at a fatal blow. why?

#188887 - 06/30/07 10:02 PM Re: Petrof?  
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I'm thinking the same thing. The Geneva Internationa/Petrof relationship has had its problems. In an earlier thread I posted excerpts from a newspaper in Prague which contained the info that Geneva had temporarily dropped Petrof. I think the issue at that time was quality control.

#188888 - 07/01/07 11:01 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Ah, remember when Geneva bailed out Petrof? Perhaps Petrof has some financial obligation to Geneva.

#188889 - 07/02/07 06:28 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Will they be discontinuing the fake Petrofs as well (currently discussed elsewhere on PW), or will there just be a fake discontinuation? If they "resume" production of the fake ones after a fake cessation of activity, will that mean that due to the double negativity of the cessation/resumption*fake^2 that there will be "real" deals on Petrofs?

f

#188890 - 07/02/07 08:31 PM Re: Petrof?  
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Quote
Originally posted by birchy:

Will they be discontinuing the fake Petrofs as well (currently discussed elsewhere on PW), or will there just be a fake discontinuation? If they "resume" production of the fake ones after a fake cessation of activity, will that mean that due to the double negativity of the cessation/resumption*fake^2 that there will be "real" deals on Petrofs?
ROFL !!!!


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