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Update:

Have already conducted a test on my new Ivory Feel replacement keys where I take the edge of a finger nail to see if a very small mark/scratch can be made, on a high "A" white key, for example... unfortunately, this can be easily done.

Have only had the new Ivory Feel keys for a short while as it may take two to three months before the wear starts to show up, and, minute scratches become more numerous with time.*

This is disappointing to find out since the original issue obviously remains unresolved.

How many key bed swaps are needed to acquire resilient key tops?

*After more use occurs, it is possible to see a powdery substance flake off of the keys due to the scratching, and, have to wonder if this loose stuff might eventually mess up the sensors/mechanism under the keys?

New request:

Would like to ask everyone out there with a Roland board (that has the Ivory Feel keys) to post their pictures so that we all can see how the key tops deteriorate, and, as to what degree of wear has occurred.

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If it were me, and I really liked the piano, I'd live with it. If the wear becomes noticeable during the warranty period, just get Roland to replace it again.


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There is no point in making yet another exchange for a set of keys that will do the same thing, if resilient keys are not available.*

And, at some point the warranty period ends, too.

*Extra note:

If anyone has pictures to share of their deteriorating key tops, this is the place to do so.

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I have a few macro photos of the surface of mine, before I got the (RD700NX) key bed replaced:

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8354.jpg

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8355.jpg

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8360.jpg

The new ones show no sign of wear until now, despite heavy use.

They also have a significantly different feel/texture, and I'm certain they are a different "formulation" than the previous set of keys. They feel less open, and probably sits right between the previous Ivory feel keys (that I actually liked otherwise) and more "normal" plastic keys.

Not sure if this helps you, though; I'm truly sorry to hear you keep having problems! As mentioned elsewhere, Roland have been very helpful to rectify the problems here for me, and I would hope their representatives elsewhere could be at least half as helpful and fix this with a new set of keys for you, now on the 2nd attempt :-)


-- Per.


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Originally Posted by Per Baekgaard
I have a few macro photos of the surface of mine, before I got the (RD700NX) key bed replaced:

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8354.jpg

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8355.jpg

http://www.b4net.dk/photos/DirectLink/D3C_8360.jpg

The new ones show no sign of wear until now, despite heavy use.

They also have a significantly different feel/texture, and I'm certain they are a different "formulation" than the previous set of keys. They feel less open, and probably sits right between the previous Ivory feel keys (that I actually liked otherwise) and more "normal" plastic keys.

Not sure if this helps you, though; I'm truly sorry to hear you keep having problems! As mentioned elsewhere, Roland have been very helpful to rectify the problems here for me, and I would hope their representatives elsewhere could be at least half as helpful and fix this with a new set of keys for you, now on the 2nd attempt :-)


-- Per.


After looking at those photos, I would have to say, that wear is unacceptable. Perhaps they should go back to using what I had on my Roland A80.


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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
After looking at those photos, I would have to say, that wear is unacceptable. Perhaps they should go back to using what I had on my Roland A80.


smile

Bear in mind, though, that the images are taken with directional light meant to illustrate the problem, are close-ups taken with a macro lens on a D-SLR, and processed to increase the contrast in order to clearly document the problem.

So it may look a bit worse than it felt -- even though I agree that this amount of wear was not acceptable so quickly (and as said, was promptly fixed by Roland). It could even have been that my particular keyboard was suffering from some other production defect, so this may not be the typical case.


-- Per.


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Wow, what camera are you using Per?

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Wow, what camera are you using Per?


My current main camera is a Nikon D300, and the optics used here was the Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AF-S VR. I used a pin-light placed some meters away from the keys, and almost flush with the keys, to enhance the contrast.

The D300 is a wonderful camera, although it is getting a bit old by now. I'm waiting for a D800, but Nikon has a long backlog globally, it seems, so it will take a while to get it... but luckily the D300 still works very well!

:-)


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I don't remember real Ivory being so textured. Why would Roland exaggerate what they are trying to emulate? And in the process make something so easy to damage. Where is the super-natural keys when you need them.

Last edited by 36251; 04/26/12 06:03 AM.

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Originally Posted by pv88
There is no point in making yet another exchange for a set of keys that will do the same thing, if resilient keys are not available.*

And, at some point the warranty period ends, too.

You did ask, before your original post was edited, for other people's opinions as to what to do. It seems as if you have already decided that the problem is not fixable (unless Roland have something else up their sleeve), so why not be done with the issue and return the V?


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My friend has an FP-7F and the keyboard shows no signs of wear.

I think it's the same keyboard as the v-piano? Or similar. PHAIII something.

I tried the fingernail test, ahem, when he was out of the room and could not mark the key surface. There is a non-gloss texture and grain close up, but it seems quite hard.

Difficult to imagine that Roland have not fixed this, especially for the v. Maybe you've just been unlucky, or worse experienced some incompetence by local Roland support. Definitely talk to Roland at a national level.

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My white keys (not the whole keybed) were individually replaced and have no wear whatsoever since then, despite some hard-hitting stuff......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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I've just checked my FP-7F and can detect no wear of the "Ivory" surface.


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When I had my FP7F, I had zero wear and I used it very heavily (2-3 hours a day). There was not even a slight hint of wear. Just to compare my laptop keys ALWAYS have wear.



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Perhaps the FP-7F key surfaces are more resistant than the RD-700/V-Piano/HP-30x?

Cheers,
James
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Yes they are. And they look different too - slightly whiter and slightly less textured.

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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yes they are. And they look different too - slightly whiter and slightly less textured.

So then the question is whether the physical form of the keys is the same? If they are, Roland can use keys from the 7F to replace the ones in the v, if they don't have 'good' stock of assembled keybeds for the v. Something here doesn't add up yet.

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It's quite possible that, given the different color substructure for the FP-7F, the keys are manufactured on different production lines, possibly using slightly different plastic formulations. I suspect - although I have no proof - that the keybed/action is completely interchangeable across the PHAIII models.


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Originally Posted by voxpops
It's quite possible that, given the different color substructure for the FP-7F, the keys are manufactured on different production lines, possibly using slightly different plastic formulations. I suspect - although I have no proof - that the keybed/action is completely interchangeable across the PHAIII models.


@voxpops,

Yes, you are more than likely correct about the different formulations being used across these different models, and, there also may be different "batches" of this formulation that has been manufactured, at different times.

Important note:

However, it is not true that you can put an FP-7F key bed (or, any other model for that matter) into a V-Piano, since these actions are inherently different in some detail, as Roland has already told me only V-Piano actions/key beds are manufactured for the V, and, none other.

This means that substitution between the V and other models is not currently possible, and, even standard plastic keys (of any kind) are not available for the V, either.

The new keys I received look and feel almost exactly identical to the original ones, and, the scratch test proves the inevitable wear, just as before.

Nothing has changed... just swapped one key bed out for another, of more or less equal materials.

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Extra note:

Also, look at the photos above as that was exactly what was happening to the original keys I had on my V-Piano. The new set of keys appear to be almost identical to the others as I expect similar wear, again.

It that isn't bad enough in itself, the particles of plastic that come off may very well get lodged in the sensors/action below the keys, screwing stuff up. No fairy tales this time, just raw facts.


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