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I'm trying to figure out what you're doing that's stressing your shoulder. If you're using the Cyberhammer correctly, you should not be using your shoulder muscles at all.

Thank you.

They don't use ear protection!

Today I am busy enough to practice what I learn in this two days. I will focus on Fujan temporarily. For I can hear tone change with slow pull.

Thank you.

Looking at the video, I'd say he's keeping his entire arm elevated and immobile while he works the impact lever. Immobile and elevated is exhausting and pisses off the tendons.

Weiyan, try standing up, so you can let your arm hang from the shoulder instead of elevating it.

I much prefer standing for many reasons. It lets the hand/finger striking strike on the fall rather, and lets the tuning arm can hang from the shoulder more passively. It also lets me turn the whole thing into a whole body experience rather than an stationary 3 muscle experience.

Jim Ialeggio

Jim,

Thank you.

Stand up is also comfortable for 120cm pianos. I can stand up right with hand support by top of the piano.

Thank you all of your valuable suggestions. Even lacking learning chance here in HK, I have chance to learn and share with those masters here.

Yes. And on shorter console and spinet pianos, sit and let your elbow rest on the piano. The only muscles you should be using are those in the wrist. If you hold the handle higher than where you would grasp it at the head, now you have to use forearm muscles to throw the the weight. You want to hold it "lightly" with either one or two fingers under the tip. Don't hold the lever tightly, as that tightens the muscles and causes stress.

Correctly used, the arm is supported, the Cyberhammer is being held in a relaxed hand with one or two fingers underneath the tip for support, and the wrist throws the weight, which does all the work of manipulating the pins.

Loren:
Thank you! Know how to properly use a tool is also important. Hope you will post more video about using CH with various piano.

Hi I am just waiting for your videos of quality tunings using that lever.

Would be pleased to see that really

Up to this day all the videos I've seen from Japanese tuners and piano factories or shop show an understandeable process with very standard and firm pin setting, by classical methods
Tone quality in unisons is also is managed in a way that make sense. That show that the learning method is based on good assumptions.

In the US piano technician trade, you seem to appreciate goodies and gadgets you are good to invent things that can be helpful, but when it comes to tune a piano, I still believe some of the concepts are not learned even actually.

(or if they are it is so much a secret you would not tell or show them publicly)

I like to find a video of a tuner "building tone" , and I regret I did not find yet.

This is probably not possible with the impact lever.

If it is and some of you know how to tune, (at that level mean at normal level, not PR level) please show us.

What I see most generally are pianos where the unisons are sounding hard and dont project, they tone as if they where tuned to break down doors. As a result the pianist have few possibilities to make the piano sing, and very often the tone is choked and ends too fast.

This is no tone building , the enveloppe of the tone is straight and then the energy is adbsorbed in a short time.

I apologize to generalize on the subject, aint my character usually, but with Internet you can listen to pianos from many place sin the world and I notice those differences.

even a small vertical of medium quality often project more than a good grand not tuned with tone building in mind.

then, a layer of harmonicity can be added by the temperament and tuning method, but this is another story.

I will make any video you wish on the matter, but please provide us your samples.






Thanks

and sorry I am frustrated, I wanted to listen to the Fandrich grand piano, and find none video where the piano was correctly singing, with enough tone management provided to the pianist while it may do so much more it is just a tuning question.

It sounds like you're expecting a tuning lever to also voice a piano, which is impossible. Tuning and voicing are entirely different things.

PR? Ok, never mind then! I posted a video trying to help showing how I tune a unison with an impact lever. If you need to see it 88 times, just watch it 88 times as the procedure is the same.

You're very welcome! All things considered, impact tuning is not for everyone. Some adapt to it well, others don't. There are many correct and proper ways to do a stable tuning...probably as many ways as there are technicians!

And as others have pointed out, sometimes the piano just calls for a traditional lever due to pin tightness/springiness, string rendering, etc.

Yes in fact that is exactly what I am saying and you confirm it.

saying that there are many ways , while being true does not dispense the piano from its own physics and similar reaction to similar techniques.

So I am still not satisfied with the answer !

THen you don't understand the difference between tuning and voicing.

"PR level," give me a break. I have nothing to do with Cyberhammer company, just a tuner who uses it day in and day out and offered a video in an attempt to help. You're welcome.



I regret that you think it is possible with any lever. Tuning is not voicing, and voicing is not tuning.

Thank you for all of the valuable suggestions. I make a video of using Cyberhammer with arm support on keybed. Weight riser is added. This video is a conclusion of using Cyberhammer.

With support on keybed, the post is relax and comfort, but not easy to move from pin to pin. For some higher pin, my arm is not length enough.

You've got it! How did it feel to you once you were resting the arm muscles? I see you're holding it at the tip now also.

Using it this way, did it feel more comfortable?

tuning unisons allow to change tone (hence touch) from chocked and small to full and clear. It have nothing to do with real voicing but it is the tuner's job to provide that clear & musical tone (and eventually adapt to have a tone which projects more or less from the piano)

Asa result the touch changes from unresponsive to more controllable (and no this have nothing to do with regulation there !) .

Any piano can do assuming the hammers are providing enough tone.

In these few days I use Fujan hammer extensively. With slow pull, I can hear the tone change. In tuning temperament, I can hear the beat rate change.

Kamin:
Thank you for your valuable suggestions. Just retune whole piano. The tone of Bass notes and whole piano is smooth and solid. I like the tone of bass. For tenor, its muddy, upper note like dropping stone on floor, only produce a solid sound. I like the upper notes brighter. Overall lack of focus.

If you wish, please post something about how to manipulate unisons to alter tone.

If you're saying a tuner should be able to tune a unison, I agree.

Yes a very rigid and light tuning lever may be a must for beginners as the flex of the traditional tuning lever is annoying as long as one is not used to it (afterthat it can be used for tuning I believe)

I will do a video whenever time permit and I have a decent piano at hand to do so, so in a few days probably.


Good if you can hear the tone changing slowly and if you can have a correct global appreciation of the final result.

You could try to tune some notes with a different touch, some very lightly and some very hard, and listen to the difference in output. in the high treble take the plugs off. Plugs are good because you can focus on the basic energy in the fundamental, but to open the tone you need to listen to the whole spectra (once you are used to recognize the energy availeable) you could try to listen to the high pitchs of the plucked string and try to find it in the note you are tuning.(so to keep the ears "open")
The ear close in defense of the strong tone it receive, that is one of the tuner's problems.

Greetings

Thank you.

I remember my first lesson with my existing mentor, he demonstrate how to evaluate unison. He tuned a unison, then asked me to play the note. Then detuned it, asked me to play again. My finger felt feedback from the key. For perfect unison, the feedback is solid. Is this the touch told by you?