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DadAgain - Your daughter is amazing. Playing Chopin a minor waltz at age 8. I was barely playing Burgmuller arabesque then. Interesting to hear that she struggles to get the feelings.. it's usually the opposite for us adults beginners and returners. Many of us get feeling / emotion contained in the piece but have to develop the skills to express them.
I love Nocturnes too but they are not easy to sight read. I have to actually practice them (LOL) while many waltz / mazurka are relatively easier to read due to the steady rhythm and lots of patterns. If I have time, I love nothing better than noodling around my Chopin books. Which nocturne do you like? Do you have life time favorite?
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I've decided to work on the A minor waltz for the recital, but at the moment I am not sure I'll be able to make it in time. I am approaching learning the piece by analyzing it for patterns and memorizing it using them instead of trying to read from the sheet and play at the same time although I can sort of do that slowly. So far I can play the first half of the first page hands together with a few mistakes. Following that there is the first fast section that I've finished figuring out the notes are and am working on memorizing and playing slowly. So I've worked up to about the end of the first page so far. There seems to be a lot of repetition with slight differences in the song, so some parts in the 2nd page don't look too challenging, but there is another fast section that I'm sure i'll struggle with and will need to decipher as well. The notes in the fast section has a lot of ledger lines, trills and leading notes which are all intimidating to me. Does anyone have any tips on learning these fast tricky sections? What do you suggest to do to speed up these sections once you've figured out what notes to play? casinitaly, how are you tackling those fast tricky parts? DadAgain, you have a very talented daughter! I hope she had a nice birthday.  Is anyone else thinking of doing the A minor waltz for the recital too?
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Hi all, somewhere in this thread I mentioned about an adult student of my teacher who had been studying a chopin piece which happened to be her first piano study. I have another person like this woman (sigh) - she is my friend and not a student of my teacher. She loves Chopin and wants nothing but Chopin. She is so enthusiastic that she even listened to International Chopin competition every day. She never missed day. She is probably level 1. She took a lesson from her other friend for a year three years ago. She wanted to know easist Chopin pieces. So I told her either Prelude in E minor, op 28 no.4 or A minor Waltz (number 17). She picked the waltz and asked me for some instructions. She cannot afford a teacher but has a piano her daugher used to use. I am not a teacher but I gave her the following instructions (see further below). Now I deeply regret it. She is having a hard time. I believe any adult learner will reach the level to play this piece. But I guess it was not a good idea to try this after 1 year of lessons. After her reaction, I realized how crazy it was to let her try a piece which is far above one's level. Most of you in the thread was opposed to the idea and I now think you guys are right. I had no idea how difficult it could be to learn this piece first for someone who did not have enough experience. I thought she could learn it since she has more time to practice than most of people. I think I should tell her to stop doing this. Does anyone know a nice beginner's piece that sounds as beautiful as Chopin's?
My instruction to her:
Recommend playing from measures 1 to 5 first hands separately (HS) without pedal or grace notes until you can play the 5 measures smoothly. Count like “One and Two and Three and†for each quarter note. Take time. It’s better to play slow & expressively than fast & messy. After a couple of days, put the hands together. If you can play these 5 measures, you can play the measures 1 to 16, 25 to 30 and 41 to 50. That’s 32 measures out of 56 measures (more than the half of the piece). Add pedal and grace notes after you can play these measures. Each group of measures 17 to 24, 31 to 40 and 51 to 56 presents different musical ideas. So practice each group separately again HS without pedal and grace notes first. Don’t spend too much time until you get sick of it. 30 min. should be the max. in the beginning. In this way, you will get this piece actually much quicker. This is from my old post. Please ignore the first part of the post. Second half may be useful. I suggest lots of hand separate, especially for the left hand. The chord must be together (should not dribble) and soft as accompaniment. Then work on the melody. For this piece, melody is on the top note of the right hand. So lean on it if you need, so that your right hand can sing the melody. When you start, go through the most difficult part for you in your head - that's the tempo you want to play this piece. If you start too fast, you will be mushy in the middle. Good luck.
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casinitaly, how are you tackling those fast tricky parts?
Is anyone else thinking of doing the A minor waltz for the recital too?
I have been working out the right hand by heart first of all (actually in effect, I'm memorizing the whole thing, I won't be reading the music). I have played the right hand til I know it and can pretty much "forget about it" and focus on the left. I have a bit of trouble with the leaps, but it is coming along. I have practiced the right hand slowly and slowly and then a bit faster - however as I can't play the left hand quickly, when I put them together it is pretty slow. I am thinking of doing it for the recital but not sure if I will feel ready - and that means emotionally as well as pianistically! (is that a word? lol)..... There's been so much talk about this piece and so much listening to it I feel nervous about putting myself "out there" with it. ....and at the same time I'd like to do it as a sort of "benchmark" of where I am at 28 months of playing.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/12291.png) 18 ABF Recitals, Order of the Red Dot European Piano Parties - Brussels, Lisbon, Lucern, Milan, Malaga, St. Goar Themed recitals: Grieg and Great American Songbook
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Speaking of A minor Waltz. Very beautiful waltz, if played well; and looks very easy. But it is actually not. The most challenging is the LH: big leaps, chords should sound all-notes-together and very soft (very challenging!) otherwise they will easily overpower the delicate melody in the right hand. The key, A minor, makes it worse - without black keys it is very difficult to land the chords at the right place. The only problem with the RH is that very fast ascending dominant arpeggio but doable with a lot of practice.
Currently, I am working on OP.69 n.2, one of my favorite Chopin's waltzes. It is going OK and I am planning to submit it for the coming ABF recital, if I will have enough time to polish it a little bit
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......snip.................
This is from my old post. Please ignore the first part of the post. Second half may be useful. I suggest lots of hand separate, especially for the left hand. The chord must be together (should not dribble) and soft as accompaniment. Then work on the melody. For this piece, melody is on the top note of the right hand. So lean on it if you need, so that your right hand can sing the melody. When you start, go through the most difficult part for you in your head - that's the tempo you want to play this piece. If you start too fast, you will be mushy in the middle. Good luck. FarmGirl, a quick question if I might: what do you mean by "The chord must be together (should not dribble)... Specifically, what is meant by "should not dribble?" Is the meaning of this phrase that all the notes in the chord should be sounded simultaneously? Just curious. Thanks.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/15854.png) Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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Thanks everyone for all the replies about how to practice the piece. It's very helpful.
I think i'll try to learn all of the right hand first too. Strangely thats what i'm struggling more on instead of the left hand so it makes sense. The jumping from bass note to chords pattern on the left hand reminds me of Gymnopdie 1 that I played in the last recital, so i think i won't have too much trouble with that.
The descriptions of the dynamics and how to learn the different parts is really helpful too. I'll keep referring to it and see how I go. I'll try skipping the pedal and grace notes for now until i can play it without struggling too much.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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......snip.................
This is from my old post. Please ignore the first part of the post. Second half may be useful. I suggest lots of hand separate, especially for the left hand. The chord must be together (should not dribble) and soft as accompaniment. Then work on the melody. For this piece, melody is on the top note of the right hand. So lean on it if you need, so that your right hand can sing the melody. When you start, go through the most difficult part for you in your head - that's the tempo you want to play this piece. If you start too fast, you will be mushy in the middle. Good luck. FarmGirl, a quick question if I might: what do you mean by "The chord must be together (should not dribble)... Specifically, what is meant by "should not dribble?" Is the meaning of this phrase that all the notes in the chord should be sounded simultaneously? Just curious. Thanks. Ok, Let me try to explain. "together" - means you should hit all the notes of the chord at the same time, so it would almost sound like one sound. Let's imagine a four note chord "CEAC" in your right hand. These note should be played together. It should not sound like "CEA" chord and followed by "C" on the top. If you don't need to emphasize any note, it's usually not too much a problem. But if the melody is in the top note, you have to emphasize the top note (meaning that the top note played a bit stronger), then, it becomes more difficult to play together. The chord may sound broken, some notes may be played tougher but the other notes may not. In addition, it is very common when people strive to project the top note with the 5th finger, the weak 4th finger on "A" may bounce on the key or dribble on the key.. hence, I called it "dribble" - not a musical term. It occurs in both left and right hands. You may get away with a few non-togetherness in a waltz like this but too much of the chords not played together will take the clarity of the piece away. Also watch out your 2nd finger which is very strong and often wind up hitting a "non-melody" note of a chord too strong, which will also take away the clarify and direction of the music away. I hope my English makes sense...
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Thanks, FarmGirl. Yes, the basketball "dribble" makes sense for a bouncing 4th finger! The other meaning for dribble came first to my mind, and I was trying to figure out how something in the chord would trickle, or fall in slow drops! 
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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...DadAgain, you have a very talented daughter! I hope she had a nice birthday. ... FYI: http://youtu.be/2HT1MOykJCg
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)
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Joined: Mar 2010
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7000 Post Club Member
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Oh my! She's a lovely girl and that was a lovely performance. She's just 8? Imagine how far she might be able to go with her music!
18 ABF Recitals, Order of the Red Dot European Piano Parties - Brussels, Lisbon, Lucern, Milan, Malaga, St. Goar Themed recitals: Grieg and Great American Songbook
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Here is more discussion on how to learn Chopin's Waltz in A minor. Chopin A minor Waltz--how to practice Ignore what the one poster suggests about using 1-3-5 fingering for the arpeggio--he later says nope, won't work. Use 1-2-3.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,088
7000 Post Club Member
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7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,088 |
Here is more discussion on how to learn Chopin's Waltz in A minor. Chopin A minor Waltz--how to practice Ignore what the one poster suggests about using 1-3-5 fingering for the arpeggio--he later says nope, won't work. Use 1-2-3. Very nice link Stubbie - thanks! (btw, I use 1-2-3 also)
18 ABF Recitals, Order of the Red Dot European Piano Parties - Brussels, Lisbon, Lucern, Milan, Malaga, St. Goar Themed recitals: Grieg and Great American Songbook
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 365
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There simply is no other way. if you dont go 1-2-3 theres no chance of smoothly getting your thumb under for the next octave. Sure you could do the first triad 1-3-5, but then youd have to 'hop' to the next octave - losing the smooth seemless feel you're after (not to mention the knot you'd end up in at the top octave).
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)
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