2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
26 members (crab89, EVC2017, clothearednincompo, APianistHasNoName, JohnCW, Kawai James, Fried Chicken, CraiginNZ, 8 invisible), 1,254 guests, and 280 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,778
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,778
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,559
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,559
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.


Pianist, teacher, occasional technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Please visit my YouTube Channel
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Quote
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert



Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
B
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,760
A
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,760
Originally Posted by beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


What facts or opinions, if any, are you basing your answer on?


Jazz/Improvising Pianist, Composer, University Prof.
At home: C. Bechstein Concert 8, Roland RD88
At work: Kawai GX2, Dave Smith Prophet Rev2 16-voice
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by maurus
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.


Lucky you !!!!! thumb


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by Robert 45
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.


Robert - while you might not be an expert, your reply does, indeed, make good sense. Thanks !!!!!!


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.


Thanks for your response !


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert


Hi Norbert -

The actions are either identical or they aren't. The degree of regulation performed at the factory is another matter.

Best -



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 407
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 407
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by Rafterman
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?


These details can be found on Kawai's websites for each piano (RX and Shigeru).

The websites for both the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru describe the actions as "Millenium III action with ABS carbon."



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,370
J
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,370
I think that the Shigeru has exactly the same action as the RX, but the hammer head is difficult. The same level of regulation should be available on both pianos with a good technician. The soundboard is different and there is more hand finishing on the Shigeru. The price isn't soooooo much higher for a Shigeru (in the UK anyway) so it may just come down to a matter of taste between two individual pianos (say RX2 vs SK2). Some RX2 may sound better than some SK2 and vice versa.


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,511
Not in my (limited) experience (so far).


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,370
J
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,370
Nor in mine, well, actually there was an old KG-2 that happened to be one of the nicest small grands I've played. That was more to do with this particular piano being exceptional than any of the others being inferior. Also, it was an exception to the rule, because usually the KG-2 isn't that good, or hasn't been looked after or etc etc.


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Carey Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,955
Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.


Yes - I meant "in the factory." grin

I realize that the hammers, strings, construction details, etc. are different...I just wanted to verify that the basic "action" was the same.

Thanks !!



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
Korg SP-100 Stage Piano
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Moderated by  Gombessa, Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,178
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.