Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Kawai RX-2BLK or Young Chang YP-185... Or Hailun 178/198?

And variability within instances of the same model can be very important.

For myself, I would never "order" a piano. I would, absolutely, only purchase something I played for myself, preferably played on different days, in different positions in the room, and right next to "known" excellent pianos.

Acoustical spaces and the position of a piano within them can be hugely important.

JG

Thank you all again for your thoughtful input.

While I can definitely see the "peace of mind" effect and better resale value for a brand like Kawai, I've now convinced myself that I don't want to spend twice the price for that.

After a few more dealer visits, the choices have come down to:

1. Hailun 198. Unfortunately, I doesn't seem like I can get a new one for x% off the old SMP of $22.5K. The new SMP is $28.5K. The dealer has a floor model. It's about a year old. (It came into Canada last April, according to Hailun USA.) It doesn't have the new slow-closing lid, which I don't miss too much. There is also a small crack on the piece of wood right beside the keys. The dealer will fix it before delivery, but the warranty will not include finish. The dealer agreed to massage the price a little because of this.

2. Brodmann PE187. Its touch seems to be a little lighter than some of the other grands we tried. The dealer told me that this can be adjusted if we want it heavier. But of course the kids like the lighter touch (easier to play; more similar to our upright).

Assuming that I can get prices that are acceptable for both of them, and they both sound well enough, what advices would you give?
- Hailun is 4 inches longer. Would you consider this an important factor? Would it be too loud? The room is roughly 15x14, but one side has no wall and opens to the corridor and another room.
- Any concern with the lack of warranty on the finish for the Hailun? (I actually don't understand why fixing a crack would remove the warranty.)
- Other than the slow closing lid, are there other differences between new Hailun 198 and one that's a year old?

I bought my Hailun 198 (serial #36660) in May 2010 and it has the slow closing lid. I've actually never seen a Hailun without one and I just assumed that they all came with it.
I've never heard that fixing a crack would invalidate the warranty. Something seems strange there.
(Also I got mine for many thousands less than 20K).

Sparky, did you mean the lid or the fallboard. The slow closing lid feature seems to be introduced in 2011.

I'm in the process of getting an explanation about why the warranty will no be honored. (My recollection was "I paid less because of that; now you are paying less too.")

Oops, my bad.
Of course fallboard was what I was referring to.
Haven't seen the slow closing lid yet.



Hmmm. Less than what I'm wondering.

Apart from warranty issues, I played that particular Hailun model, and sonically I don't think it takes a back seat to any of the best pianos in that size. I believe the 198 is the grand that came out even-Steven with Steinway in a blind test conducted in France a number of years ago.

Anyhow, I've also played quite a few Brodmanns. I don't think they're in the same league, at all. But I've never played the Brodmann and the Hailun 198 NEXT to one another. Simply going on memory. Brodmann seems to be one of the better-sounding Chinese-made pianos, but again not in the Hailun league. The Hailun is something special, which may be why the prices appear to be skyrocketing.

JG

I knew Chinese pianos were going to be increasing significantly in price but I haven't been monitoring the price at all.
But if the prices are increasing dramatically then that makes me feel even more lucky that I got my 198 at such a steal, although regret that I never even considered the 218 at the time.

Hi John

It was the 178 which won a prize, about 5 years ago. The Hailun 198 has never been distributed in Europe.

John, I'd appreciate it if you could provide a few hints how you arrived at that conclusion.

I've seen good reviews for both brands. I haven't found many direct comparison though. Larry Fine gave them the same rating. (Now that Hailun has the Vienna models, priced much higher than the traditional ones, I don't know how they will be rated now.)

Both John and I separately tried out the same Brodmann 212 at a certain dealer here.

He apparently wasn't impressed whereas I really liked it.

It just goes to show how much of a variation in personal preference piano selection can be between individuals.

(I should also note that he is a WAY better piano player than myself so I would think that that should definitely be a factor in things)

I played the Brodmann available at Robert Lowrey's and found the tone and touch distinctly "rubbery," for want of a better term. I may be up at the Eglinton Ave store again to purchase some mutes (they'll sell that stuff to you, sometimes), at which point I should play that piano again so that I can say EXACTLY what I don't like about them. Mind you, it was just THAT particular Brodmann. About 7 ft, I think, and Lowrey's best Chinese brand, at least, that's what they will tell you. Expensive, too.

There is a Youtube recording of a Brodmann that is pretty accurate re sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpeuIobdE5Y

Again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKP3RJYNUP4&feature=related


This is close to what I remember. Not a "bad" piano, but listen to the low notes.... nothing there really .... for a 7 foot piano. And the top end is, I'm sorry, just a tad "tinny" as opposed to "bell-like." They talk about "resonance" in these adds, but that's exactly what ISN'T there, to my ears.

Still, it could be a tuning issue.

Now here's the PE187, nicely tuned and played and recorded too. This Brodmann (not the 212 I played at Lowrey's) sounds much better on the face of it!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJvL3HV_w3c&feature=related

If I'm at Lowrey's I'm going to try to find one of these...

JG

I listened to the three youtube performances and my impressions are as follows.

#1. The player has a ham handed touch. The piano itself doesn't sound bad, but the very top notes just sound plink, plink with no sustain. The other merely higher notes sound pretty good. It should be noted that the camcorder used compresses the sound significantly so the sound you hear does not an accurately represent the sustain of the instrument. In reality there will be less sustain.

#2. Freddie plays very few notes at the very top and their sound (beyond initial attack) gets lost in the wash of sustain. He's not a ham handed player and makes the piano sound as nice as it can at a NAMM show.

#3. Agreed, the best sound of the three, pro player, pro recording. It makes a difference.

I will say that if you feel these pianos sound bad then your taste in pianos runs contrary to mine. If these pianos had been widely available when I was shopping (2005) I might have a different piano now.

Are you guys listening to YouTube through some special equipment? I though most people play YouTube through their computer speakers. (That's the only way I can do it.) Regular computer speakers seem sooooooooo inferior as to make a determination of how a piano sounds virtually impossible. I think I must be missing something, as frequently PW people direct each other to YouTube recordings, I listen, and for the life of me I can't imagine how anyone could compare piano sounds listening through (at least my) computer speakers.

So, clearly y'all know something I don't. What is it? Thanks in advance for a reply.

You have to take into account that the piano that Freddie Ravel is playing is the "Artist Series" - made in Germany. It is roughly twice the cost of the first piano played by Nick in his store.

I do agree about the third video - Chris Venables does a marvelous job on his recordings and this video shows the PE 187 for what it is (or at least can be). Not bad for a 187cm grand piano in the mid-teens ($).

For all the reasons stated above, you wouldn't assess a piano on the basis of a youtube recording or any recording, however good and however wonderful you're sound equipment at home! It's just a starting point. You have to play the instrument in question, and play it many times with different material, and right next to a piano that is known to be, and actually is, a very good or even "great" instrument.

It's all relative!

JG

The way to take advantage is to get some good headphones and you'll notice that some people are really putting out some higher quality recordings. YouTube does compress files, but the bandwidth for audio isn't nearly as restricted as the video compression. I keep headphones at work and at home and it's great.

I agree with Sam.

I listen to music through my stereo speakers all the time (YouTube, Spotify, Rhapsody etc)

When I really want to hear something, however, I use a good pair of headphones.

Makes all the difference in the world.

Thank you, Sam. I've found the place to plug in my headphones. I'm getting a bunch of windows appearing on my monitor that I don't understand and no sound is coming through the phones. One of my techie friends will be here Saturday. I'm sure he'll figure it out. Then I'll know what you guys are talking about. Thanks again!

Make sure you plug it into the small green jack since the pink one is for microphone input.
Also make sure that your headphones don't have a volume control on them somewhere that is turned down.
You really shouldn't need a "techie" just to plug in headphones to your computer.
Usually you can just unplug the speaker connection and plug the headphones right into there.

Thanks, Sparky. Actually it's a laptop, the jacks that are a match with my headphones have no pink, green, or other color to distinguish them, I've checked the volume control on the phones, and plugging in (besides getting me no sound) triggered a bunch of messages that a Luddite like me can't decifer AND my techie buddy will be here tomorrow. I am sure he'll be able to solve the problem and that it's likely to be mundane but if anything interesting comes of it I'll post it here. Thanks again.