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Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: vegasE] #1811463
12/23/11 09:42 PM
12/23/11 09:42 PM
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Sydney, AU
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vegasE Offline
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Originally Posted by vegasE
Originally Posted by Kawai James
vegasE, may I ask where you found that image?

It appears to reference an older keyboard action, and may therefore not be applicable to the latest 'RM3 Grand' action.

Kind regards,
James
x


http://www.francepianos.com/granex/kawai_mp10.htm

I found it strange that the image was named "awazones" as well. Thats why i ended my post asking whether it was correct.
The funny thing was, i came across it searching for the CA51 - not the MP10. Sort of makes sense given the image file name.

In the past few weeks i have been testing some new DP's. I have found a MP10 and a MP8ii in a store sitting side by side. The actions did feel similarly weighted (not definative by any means) but the biggest difference i felt was the left-off mechanism of the MP10.

I have also been interested in the differences between the actions - AWA ProII and RM3.




Just found it again here - http://www.kawai.de/ca51_en.htm
So it would appear that it is for the older actions.

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Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1811465
12/23/11 09:45 PM
12/23/11 09:45 PM
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The main difference between the AWA PRO II and RM3 that I am already aware of is that the fulcums on the RM3 are set back on the black keys (as they are on acoustics) so that the leverage ratio is the same on the black and white keys. This is not the case for the AWA PRO 1 and 2. If it is noticeable, it would mean that on the PRO 2 the back of the black key would be harder than the front to a larger degree than on the RM3.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1819906
01/06/12 08:57 PM
01/06/12 08:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Just found these Kawai MP9000 key pix: http://xahlee.org/piano/kawai_mp9000_piano_key_action.html

Bonus - a harpsichord made of LEGO! http://www.henrylim.org/Harpsichord.html

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1831606
01/25/12 02:51 PM
01/25/12 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
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Los Angeles
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Sam Rose Offline
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Los Angeles
Anyone seen CP300 pics? I want to open mine. I'm generally very handy, but I always prefer to use instructions if available.


Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
"You can play better than BachMach2." - Mark_C
Currently Butchering:
Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# Minor
My Piano Diary: http://www.youtube.com/sirsardonic
♪ > $
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1870918
03/30/12 10:44 AM
03/30/12 10:44 AM
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Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Just added a link on first post to this thread for Lawrence's Yamaha AG N3 key regulation post.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1871214
03/30/12 10:06 PM
03/30/12 10:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,591
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Kawai James] #1872407
04/02/12 08:50 AM
04/02/12 08:50 AM
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Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

*Shwing!*

http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage-forum-f3/ns2-in-the-nude-t2647.html
- Nord: NS2, Wave, Lead3, Rack2 - brains & chopped keys
- Access: Virus TI - brains

http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?t=17673
- Nord: Lead1, Rack2 - guts

http://midibox.org/forums/topic/764...d-3-virus-ti-pulse-xt-andromeda-updated/
- Dave Smith: Poly Evolver - guts
- Access: Virus TI - guts

All added to the first post, muchas gracias!

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1872415
04/02/12 09:14 AM
04/02/12 09:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,591
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Any further analysis on the Nord Stage 2?


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1872516
04/02/12 12:11 PM
04/02/12 12:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,014
36251 Online content
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I would love to see the action and insides of a FP4 (not F.) I'm curious why I like this older action. I've done much research with Google but can't find anything.


AG N2 | PX S3000 | REFACE CP | GK MK & MP amps
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Kawai James] #1872680
04/02/12 04:37 PM
04/02/12 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Any further analysis on the Nord Stage 2?

The hacked off end keys are really surprising.

Not a lot of flash in there compared to what they should be doing with today's standards (my standard lament).

I don't understand why many DSPs are running at 150 MHz when PC processors are running in excess of 3 GHz. For what you pay for with multiple DSPs (6!) you might as well be using an FPGA with a high speed SDRAM interface and tens or hundreds of ALUs running in parallel. You could do thousands of second order filters in a low-end FPGA. Maybe it's a cost or lack of in-house expertise thing?

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1874522
04/06/12 06:49 AM
04/06/12 06:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 108
Madrid, Spain
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Madrid, Spain
Hello,

I'm new to the forums, and wanted to start by showing some CVP-305 intimate pictures smile

This is my Clavinova CVP305 without the top cover. The keyboard is not visible as it's hidden under the cover (the brown piece to the right of the picture)
[Linked Image]


This seems the main board with yamaha DSPs:
[Linked Image]

When the top cover is fully removed you can see the keyboard. Looking at those short keys is no wonder that the action is not very close to the real thing:
[Linked Image]

In this perspective you can see the key weights. As this is a GH3, it have 3 different weight zones:
[Linked Image]

By unscrewing the keyboard you can clearly see the weights and the action. The green boards are the ones with the sensors. It has three sensors in the GH3 models but they are not visible because they are on the other side of the board (the one that contacts with the keys):
[Linked Image]

This is a disasembled GHD keyboard. In it you can see the two sensors (the GH3 version has 3):
[Linked Image]

And last, a sideways view of the keys:
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Carlos-CR; 04/06/12 06:50 AM. Reason: (right and left confusion :( )
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1874545
04/06/12 07:46 AM
04/06/12 07:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,787
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
GH3 doesn't mean there are three different weighting groups, it means there are three sensors for each key.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Carlos-CR] #1874580
04/06/12 09:30 AM
04/06/12 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Northern NJ
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
I'm new to the forums, and wanted to start by showing some CVP-305 intimate pictures smile

Welcome Carlos, and thanks for the pix!

I can't make out the chip numbers, but there is apparently a sample playback board with two different processors lashed to an I/O board with yet another processor. And look at all those wires! I'd think an integrated redesign would be cheaper and potentially more reliable than this bits and pieces approach (but that could strand old inventory). Must be kind of a pain to manufacture.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: EssBrace] #1874585
04/06/12 09:44 AM
04/06/12 09:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 108
Madrid, Spain
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Carlos-CR Offline
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
GH3 doesn't mean there are three different weighting groups, it means there are three sensors for each key.


Hello EssBrace,

yes GH3 is for the 3 sensors. But it happens there are also 3 different weights. It's written in the boards as H, M and L, and the metal weights have 3 different color codes too. The GHD keyboards also have 3 different weight zones but only 2 sensors.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1874588
04/06/12 09:48 AM
04/06/12 09:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 108
Madrid, Spain
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Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
I'm new to the forums, and wanted to start by showing some CVP-305 intimate pictures smile

Welcome Carlos, and thanks for the pix!

I can't make out the chip numbers, but there is apparently a sample playback board with two different processors lashed to an I/O board with yet another processor. And look at all those wires! I'd think an integrated redesign would be cheaper and potentially more reliable than this bits and pieces approach (but that could strand old inventory). Must be kind of a pain to manufacture.


Hello Dewster,

I will post higher resolution pictures later but I'm not sure you could read the model numbers. frown


Effectively there are lots of cables and it is a real pain to change the keyboard.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Carlos-CR] #1874715
04/06/12 02:59 PM
04/06/12 02:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 108
Madrid, Spain
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Carlos-CR Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
I'm new to the forums, and wanted to start by showing some CVP-305 intimate pictures smile

Welcome Carlos, and thanks for the pix!

I can't make out the chip numbers, but there is apparently a sample playback board with two different processors lashed to an I/O board with yet another processor. And look at all those wires! I'd think an integrated redesign would be cheaper and potentially more reliable than this bits and pieces approach (but that could strand old inventory). Must be kind of a pain to manufacture.


Hello Dewster,

I will post higher resolution pictures later but I'm not sure you could read the model numbers. frown


Effectively there are lots of cables and it is a real pain to change the keyboard.


Ok, here I go again with full res pics of the main boards. Some numbers are readable and others aren't. If there is A LOT of interest I could open again my clavinova and shot better pictures, but for the moment that is what I have:
[Linked Image]

And another one:
[Linked Image]

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Carlos-CR] #1875254
04/07/12 05:33 PM
04/07/12 05:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Northern NJ
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
Ok, here I go again with full res pics of the main boards. Some numbers are readable and others aren't.

Thanks! I can't make out much other than a couple of Winbond W986432EDH-7 chips, which are 512K x 4 bank x 32 bit SDRAM. Lots of proprietary Yamaha markings.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1875317
04/07/12 08:31 PM
04/07/12 08:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,591
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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That big, shiny Yamaha chip looks interesting...


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: Kawai James] #1875361
04/07/12 11:00 PM
04/07/12 11:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
That big, shiny Yamaha chip looks interesting...

It's probably the newest and most powerful chip - it's a BGA and everything else is ancient looking QFP and TQFP. Someone wake me up for NAMM 2020.

Re: DPs Exposed! [Re: dewster] #1878015
04/12/12 06:17 AM
04/12/12 06:17 AM
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Posts: 3,394
UK
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UK
Since I had no reason to I took the top off my Kawai CN33 and took the following two pics:

Overview: it's pretty empty, shows top and back of the keys with a couple of small control panel circuit boards mostly hidden, audio amplifier board, and main (only) board. The (two) speakers point downwards. The shapes of the hammers at the back of the keys change presumably providing different weights:
[Linked Image]


The main circuit board. Two big Kawai chips (do we still say chips?). I don't know if the other side has components. It's surface mount that's all I recognise:
[Linked Image]


Not shown is the other speaker and the power transformer. That's it!


Last edited by spanishbuddha; 04/12/12 06:20 AM.
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