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sceptical,
I'm a piano teacher and I've been a school band teacher. I understand. REALLY, consider the Roland SA-300 while you can find one. Sounds pretty good. Just two pieces (c. 20 pounds each). Set the top unit on top of the bottom. You're all set. 4 stereo channels with several inputs on each channel. So you could have something like 12 instruments/mics. Anti-feedback so it sits behind players/singers. Stereo pretty good.
I use mine for a couple of purposes at home but major reason was for community theater production every summer. Last summer we plugged 3 keyboards and a bass into it as part of 20 piece pit orchestra. Filled 1000 seat HS auditorium nicely without cranking volume.
Original steet price was $1000.
Susanmusic
P.S. To add to versatility, you can use just the top unit alone. It detects that sub not attached.
Last edited by susanmusic; 04/09/12 11:08 AM. Reason: add P.S.
Teacher. 1926 Steinway M. Kawai CE200. Casio PX3. Yamaha P-60. Yamaha NP-30. Roland C-30 Digital Harpsichord. Roland Integra 7.
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Sceptical,
Practicality and sound quality are trade-offs to an extent. If you want better sound, your have to trade off some of the ease of setup. If you want total ease of setup, you sacrifice sound quality. Now it seems to me that you have already announced that you are not happy with the sound of your piano through the Bose, and that discontentment is the reason you started this thread. There is no way that is going to change. Unless you think you can tolerate what you are hearing now, you are going to have to ditch the Bose, or buy another one and run them in stereo. Personally, I think Bose gear is wretched stuff, but that's just an opinion. Your opinion is the one that matters.
So, exactly how unhappy with your sound are you? Could you learn to live with it? Is the ease of use compensating you enough for the lack of sound quality?
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Sceptical,
So, exactly how unhappy with your sound are you? Could you learn to live with it? Is the ease of use compensating you enough for the lack of sound quality? The NX has not sounded good through any of my available amps yet, including the Bose. So I'd say I'm as unhappy with the sound as I've ever been, but only had thought that with the Bose the NX would be better. I've still yet to get back to the school and give it one last try with running two cables from the NX to the Bose, and then setting some delay to compensate for phasing issues that are apparently causing the thin sound in the middle registers. If that doesn't work then I'll either have to simply live with the bad sound, or look into the SA300 that was recommended above by a few people. Chances are though, that the SA would not be the best choice either because it sits behind the players, and the sound would ultimately (so it would seem) become muffled for the keyboard and horns. update: I've just checked around for the SA300 and it is not easily available, if at all, around here. Too bad because it sounds pretty decent. Does anyone know why it was discontinued?
Last edited by scepticalforumguy; 04/09/12 01:31 PM. Reason: update added
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Sceptical,
So, exactly how unhappy with your sound are you? Could you learn to live with it? Is the ease of use compensating you enough for the lack of sound quality? The NX has not sounded good through any of my available amps yet, including the Bose. So I'd say I'm as unhappy with the sound as I've ever been, but only had thought that with the Bose the NX would be better. I've still yet to get back to the school and give it one last try with running two cables from the NX to the Bose, and then setting some delay to compensate for phasing issues that are apparently causing the thin sound in the middle registers. If that doesn't work then I'll either have to simply live with the bad sound, or look into the SA300 that was recommended above by a few people. Chances are though, that the SA would not be the best choice either because it sits behind the players, and the sound would ultimately (so it would seem) become muffled for the keyboard and horns. running two cables won't do anything. I believe it's the same as running in left mono output. I would like to know if my idea helps. I said to run right to Bose and run left to Roland, which should be placed left of piano. With some volume adjustment I think you can get a somewhat stereo image for the stage. It might not project to audience but there should be enough sound for audience to enjoy.
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I've still yet to get back to the school and give it one last try with running two cables from the NX to the Bose, and then setting some delay to compensate for phasing issues that are apparently causing the thin sound in the middle registers.
Isn't it easier to simply send a mono line out to the Bose from the RD's left (mono) output? It's probably better to let the piano sum the channels rather than try to do it afterwards. If that doesn't work then I'll either have to simply live with the bad sound, or look into the SA300 that was recommended above by a few people. Chances are though, that the SA would not be the best choice either because it sits behind the players, and the sound would ultimately (so it would seem) become muffled for the keyboard and horns.
The SA300 can sit wherever you like. It's just that it CAN sit behind. Reading your previous posts it sounded like you wanted the speakers behind so that people on stage could hear more clearly!
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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I would like to know if my idea helps. I said to run right to Bose and run left to Roland, which should be placed left of piano. With some volume adjustment I think you can get a somewhat stereo image for the stage. It might not project to audience but there should be enough sound for audience to enjoy. Yes, this is the other thing I will definitely try too since it doesn't involve buying/returning/exchanging anything.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Isn't it easier to simply send a mono line out to the Bose from the RD's left (mono) output? It's probably better to let the piano sum the channels rather than try to do it afterwards.
That's the first thing I tried which led me to start this thread. If that doesn't work then I'll either have to simply live with the bad sound, or look into the SA300 that was recommended above by a few people. Chances are though, that the SA would not be the best choice either because it sits behind the players, and the sound would ultimately (so it would seem) become muffled for the keyboard and horns.
The SA300 can sit wherever you like. It's just that it CAN sit behind. Reading your previous posts it sounded like you wanted the speakers behind so that people on stage could hear more clearly! Yes I do, but I want the audience to hear it clearly too. Typically with amps that sit on the ground one needs a somewhat clear path in front to hear the highs. I'll have about three rows of kids with instruments in front of the sound system. The advantage of the Bose is that the tweeters are on a 7 ft pole and point outwards to about 180 degrees, somewhat like the spread of a typical PA on tripods. Jeez, I feel like I'm a rep from Bose trying to sell you guys on something. I just got the system on Thursday, played through it for about 45 minutes, and found myself disillusioned with my piano sound. I came here to see if anyone has actually tried this system and found a solution. It appears that no one has used the Bose here. IF someone were to ask me at this point if I would recommend the Bose for keyboards I'd also say no, at least not yet.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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A comment or two regarding Bose, specifically the 802s since Bose triggers such vitriol among some folks. I've been using two Bose 802s (with the system controller) for 20 years and always receive very positive comments on the sound of the system. (Singers love my sound system.) The piano always sounds great as well as vocals and any mp3s or CDs I run through it.
While the price of the 802s is pricey, you'll never have to buy a flight case since the case itself is its own flight case.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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I came here to see if anyone has actually tried this system and found a solution. It appears that no one has used the Bose here. I have used this system, and actually use it regularly (once a month). One of the clubs I play is equipped with a pair of these. Initially, I liked the sound (in stereo), but since the club is small and one of the speakers sits right next to some audience tables, the waiters have taken to turning off one side during the course of the performance, leaving my keys operating on one channel only, and pumping the other into a dead-end - doesn't sound great. That's what led me to purchase the SA-300. I considered the Motion Sound KP-500SN, or simply bringing my existing Mackie SRM350s to reestablish my stereo image, but the KP is too bulky/heavy, and the Mackies would involve a mixer and more cables/setup-time/space, and so the SA-300 was the best compromise. I think it's very sensible to try using your KC as part of the system, but the sound and acoustic treatment will be vastly different from the Bose, and so it's unlikely it'll be a wonderful solution - but you never know.
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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and so the SA-300 was the best compromise.
Can you give any insight as to why they have discontinued this model? Has it been replaced? I can't see anything online except for other PA things from Roland, but nothing within a single unit labelled as PA. There's a similar looking Bass amp BA300, but I doubt this would work. Also, I understood from reading the Bose musician forum that the towers were not offensively louder when you were closer to the them. I can't say I really understand this, but it appears that you're saying that this isn't the case?
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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and so the SA-300 was the best compromise.
Can you give any insight as to why they have discontinued this model? Has it been replaced? I can't see anything online except for other PA things from Roland, but nothing within a single unit labelled as PA. There's a similar looking Bass amp BA300, but I doubt this would work. I have no idea why it was discontinued other than it possibly wasn't a best-seller. However, it's still available new at Mass Music: here Like I said, it's not perfect: a little hiss/white noise if you crank it up high (but it's powerful enough that you probably don't have to do that), and the stereo image is narrow (although the "wide" button adds a semblance of extra separation) due to the fact that the upper unit speakers are very close together and the sub is mono. However, the pluses outweighed the minuses for me, and it solved my issues. It has enough of the stereo signal remaining for the problems you describe to be substantially mitigated. The SA1000 was described as optimized for Roland keyboards - what exactly that means, I'm not sure, but I suspect the 300 and the 1000 are likely to be very similar, internally. Also, I understood from reading the Bose musician forum that the towers were not offensively louder when you were closer to the them. I can't say I really understand this, but it appears that you're saying that this isn't the case? I'm not saying that at all. It's just that if a group sits next to the speaker and decides they want to chat rather than listen to the music, they'll ask the waiter to turn the sound down, and he'll oblige - after all his tip depends on it! It's damn annoying, but there you are.
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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B&H has the SA1000 at $1,199: here This is what a reviewer had to say: "i use this keyboard ampifier for practicing my keyboards and organ.i have not owned it for very long, maybe a couple of weeks.it is very simple to use. very portable, and small enough to fit in my small town house living area.it has crystal clean highs for keyboard, and stage piano. as well as excellent clear lows for the organ.i also own a leslie for which i have used for my organ, and now i will have to get use to a different sound coming from the organ because this stage amplifier is not a rotating amplifier like the leslie is.i plan on selling my leslie because of the size, and i dont have a roady to move it from gig to gig. the leslie weighs about 125 lbs. this gem is 25 lbs each stack. i have not used the other inputs for mics and cd or drum machines as yet. there are pleanty of stereo inputs to use. as well as a headphone output."
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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Somewhat OT, scepticalforumguy, I just checked out your link. Great playing! I'm curious: that sounds like a real Rhodes; am I right? Also, what acoustic piano(s) did you use for those recordings? (It sounds like more than one brand.)
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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Somewhat OT, scepticalforumguy, I just checked out your link. Great playing! I'm curious: that sounds like a real Rhodes; am I right? Also, what acoustic piano(s) did you use for those recordings? (It sounds like more than one brand.) Thanks Vox! As for the Rhodes---on Beatrice it's the 700NX, on All Blues its a real Rhodes, and yes, there are two different pianos in the other recordings a Shigeru and a 100yr old Bell upright.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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As for the Rhodes---on Beatrice it's the 700NX, on All Blues its a real Rhodes
That figures. All Blues has that wonderful, warm presence of the genuine article. The sound on Beatrice is good, but has a slightly harder edge - not bad though, for a Roland.  there are two different pianos in the other recordings a Shigeru and a 100yr old Bell upright. The Shigeru sounds very, very nice!
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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Can you give any insight as to why they have discontinued this model? Has it been replaced?
Well it didn't sell very well because it couldn't compete with the powered PA speakers coming out. It's been replaced with a couple of stereo link options for normal K series KB amp's. So actually it has just been dropped rather then replaced.
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
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I considered the Motion Sound KP-500SN, or simply bringing my existing Mackie SRM350s to reestablish my stereo image, but the KP is too bulky/heavy, What ? The KP-500SN is about 5 pounds more but in one case while the Roland is two cases ?
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
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I don't get your logic .....nothing simpler then setting up a couple of K12's .....
Seriously? Let me know when you have 150 thirteen year old students running around while you try to get them organized into bringing 90 folding chairs, 60 music stands, 5 portable risers (each weighing 200 lbs), a full percussion section including mallet instruments, gongs, etc, etc, an electric piano, and a PA system, from the band room into a nearby gym, then getting them to set up their own instruments and arrange their music all within 30 minutes and then let me know what part of the logic of trying to streamline the operation you might be missing. Tripods not a good idea. More cables not a good idea. Monitors or more amps so the students can hear themselves not such a good idea. A mixing board, not such a good idea for 13 year old kids. Oh, and the whole take down at the end of the night is quite another ordeal. You either must work for the QSC company or really really hate Bose. How can the K12s make things simpler than any other typical PA? Are they wireless? Can they be placed directly behind the players like the Bose? Do they not require a mixing board? Tripods? Look, I'm not disputing that you and others believe that the K12s and a host of other products may sound better than the Bose, but I am questioning the reasoning behind suggesting a typical PA system would be easier and/or better for my specific scenario. If you have 150 people in the room your way beyond the capabilities of the Bose system anyway. Simple fact is you can't get better sound without a proper PA system and that means more cables, a mixer and monitors. You might want to cut corners and simplify but it comes at a cost as your experiencing and that cost is crap sound.
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
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I considered the Motion Sound KP-500SN, or simply bringing my existing Mackie SRM350s to reestablish my stereo image, but the KP is too bulky/heavy, What ? The KP-500SN is about 5 pounds more but in one case while the Roland is two cases ? For a geezer pushing 60, the spread over two cases makes all the difference. Half the weight per cabinet, and less bulk to manhandle. Even if I carry it all at once, 25lbs per hand is much easier to deal with than 55lbs in one hand. I had a 50+lbs amp previously, and it was a pain - literally.
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"
mabraman, 2015
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If you have 150 people in the room your way beyond the capabilities of the Bose system anyway. Simple fact is you can't get better sound without a proper PA system and that means more cables, a mixer and monitors. You might want to cut corners and simplify but it comes at a cost as your experiencing and that cost is crap sound.
Got it. This isn't dance music. Its a grade eight jazz band that needs reinforcement for the solo horns and to plug the bass and guitar and keyboard into. I'd be surprised if I need more power than the Bose. It seems DJs are using these with success in similar spaces, so let's move on, shall we? As a side note, there is an existing speaker system in the gym that I can use to reinforce the sound if I wanted, but the speakers are attached to the ceiling, so not great for balancing one's sound. For those interested I'll report back once I try the things I mentioned earlier to see if I get a better sound from the NX tomorrow.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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