Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
46 registered members (Belger1900, andy250, Beakybird, alphonsus, Andrei Kuznetsov, beeboss, 11 invisible), 1,651 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1873861 - 04/04/12 08:42 PM How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Charles34 Offline
Junior Member
Charles34  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Belgium,Europe
Hi.
I thought it would be simple to order a set of new Steinway hammers for my piano. It is a very good US Steinway but the hammers have to be changed.
Would somebody be nice enough to help me in my choice because I don't know what to do. Hereunder, my emails to Steinway and their answers.
What worries me, is the change in geometry of the hammers and repetitions (as Steinway calls the wippens), the apparent change of the position and may be the size of the rollers, and above all, the possible length change of the shanks in the standard complete hammers, that would change the contact point along the strings which would be disastrous. And would it be really necessary to change the repetitions also.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Me to Steinway :
Hi,
I have a 1953 L model Steinway (made in US).
I'd like to replace the hammer set with new hammers.
I would need complete hammers with shanks, rollers and flanges.
To be sure to order the right part, I would like to know if the
following choice is the right one for this piano :

NY HAMMERS GLUED TO PRE '84 SHANKS & FLANGES : part nr 006218 NY HAMMERS
GLUED HAM. S/F (5 1/8") -S/M/L/O - PRE '84
--------------------------------------------------------------

From Steinway Parts Department:
We suggest using the NY Improved parts whenever possible. The part number would be 006228 – NY Hammers Glued to NY Shanks and Flanges. In some cases you may also need to change the let-off buttons to a thinner size – part number 005070.
If you need more technical information, please contact our Technical Services Administrator
--------------------------------------------------------------

To Steinway Technical Services Administrator:
Concerning the full replacement of hammers, the Part Department suggests that I could ask for your help if needed.

As you can see in the emails, I am advised to use the part nr 006228 instead of part nr 006218, although this last being apparently for Pre '84 pianos.

In your price list, I suppose that PRE '84 refers to the year 1984. If that's the case, may I ask you why I should not use these hammers, my piano being a 1953 one, and if the advised hammers 006228 are a better choice and more important, fully interchangeable with the original ones.

On the other hand, I am advised that it could be necessary to change the let-off buttons to a thinner size - part nr 005070. Could you please tell me why I should change these parts when changing the hammers, and what would be the benefits of that change ?
--------------------------------------------------------------

From Steinway Technical Services Administrator:
Pre-’84 hammershanks are for use with lightweight hammers. Because we no longer make lightweight hammers, we do not recommend pre-’84 parts for action rebuilding.

Hammers 006228 is an acceptable choice for a Model L made in 1953. A better choice would be 006617 hammershanks and 006213 hammer heads, then glue the hammers in your own workshop to match the hanging distance of the original hammers.

When replacing hammershanks, you should always replace the repetitions 006689. If you are not replacing repetitions, then you will need 005070 let-off buttons to compensate for the difference in action geometry between the original hammershanks and the new hammershanks. If you replace the repetitions, then you will not need 005070 let-off buttons.


(ad 800)
PTG 2017 Convention
PTG Convention 2017 St Louis
#1873893 - 04/04/12 10:19 PM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
As you are finding out, it is not straight forward at all.

With this kind of work, it is critical to have the right parts, otherwise your piano may not play properly. Judging by what you write, it does not sound like you have the experience with this kind of work. Especially on an expensive and good instrument such as an S&S, I think it is wise council to get this kind of work done by someone with experience in dealing with all the parameters. It is much too involved for someone lacking the skills and knowledge to attain a decent outcome of the parts replacement.

#1873907 - 04/04/12 11:00 PM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ralph  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Delaware (slower/lower)
Not a DIYer project unless you can pay to have an expert do it again.


Do or do not. There is no try.
#1873927 - 04/04/12 11:54 PM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
The tools you need to do this job correctly will make this job more expensive than hiring a professional.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1874028 - 04/05/12 07:22 AM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Charles34 Offline
Junior Member
Charles34  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Belgium,Europe
Thank you to all for your 3 answers. I agree with all 3. Actualy, I did not intend to do the work myself. A pro will do the job but I have to make the choice among the solutions proposed by the Steinway Parts department. When they say that the 1st solution (006228 – NY Hammers Glued to NY Shanks and Flanges) is an "acceptable choice", I don't realize to what extent that's acceptable and if it would be really worhwhile to do the big job of separate hammers and shanks to be glued plus new repetions.

#1874034 - 04/05/12 07:30 AM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Zeno Wood Offline
500 Post Club Member
Zeno Wood  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Brooklyn, NY
I would recommend that your pro go about buying the parts. It's usually not a good idea if the client buys the parts from the manufacturer/distributor, for just the sort of reason that we're seeing. Hopefully the technician knows all the variables involved in buying different dimension parts.


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#1874140 - 04/05/12 11:16 AM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by Charles34
.... A pro will do the job but I have to make the choice among the solutions proposed by the Steinway Parts department. .....

If you are the one who selects the parts, then you are the one who is responsible for any touch problems which may (and probably will) occur upon installation of parts and completion of the job.

A qualified and experienced technician should never leave these decisions to a piano player/owner who has no experience in that department. It is a bit of a mine field for the layperson.

#1874143 - 04/05/12 11:23 AM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,320
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,320
Oakland
A real pro would know which parts to use.


Semipro Tech
#1874201 - 04/05/12 01:31 PM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Ralph]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Michigan
Originally Posted by Ralph
Not a DIYer project unless you can pay to have an expert do it again.


The cautions given are well founded. Experienced technicians have seen disasters.

Nonetheless, I have had success helping DIY folk with extensive rebuilding work. There is a difference between someone just diving in and making mistakes they don't even know they are making compared to having a seasoned professional for consultation.

Also, I recommend the Cadenza hammers. Not because I distribute them, but the other way around. I haven't found the same kind of tonal response from any other hammer -- and I have successfully worked with other brands. Premium hammers are more expensive, but they last longer and offer a greater tonal palette.

In your case, the Cadenza are made from the same felt Steinway uses and the sheets are made with the same double taper that S&S uses.

Competent technicians can take any action and then modify the action geometry if needed, to account for any difference in touch resistance. (A topic, BTW, which is not fully understood -- particularly as it relates to the dynamic response of the hammer).

If you want to explore anything mentioned here further, feel free to send me a PM.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#1875050 - 04/07/12 08:21 AM Re: How to Replace hammers on a Steinway L 1953 [Re: Charles34]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Charles34 Offline
Junior Member
Charles34  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Belgium,Europe
Thank you all for your answers. My case is a bit special. I live in Europe and bought my piano in USA. The seller (a professional) will provide me with the parts, and I have a pro who will install them here in Europe. I have to make the choice myself, as it will be under my responsibility, and among the 3 choices proposed by Steinway, there is also quite a big difference in price and work. That's the reason why I post my question on this wonderful forum where there are very knowledgeable and helpful people. (By the way, sorry for the faults in my English, which is not my language.)
The safe part of this work is that if the result is bad, it will be possible to put back the old hammers, as they are not totally worn out. Just a big lost of money in this case. But I still do not understand why new hammers, from S&S (or Cadenza ?), properly installed and harmonized, and of the exact same length, could be a failure.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
A question on sheet music
by carolinakeys. 09/22/17 04:10 AM
Garritan CFX vs. Soniccouture Hammersmith
by Osho. 09/21/17 10:48 PM
Chords by Ear?
by tinman1943. 09/21/17 09:14 PM
Kawai MP11 Factory default setup parameters
by HaraldC. 09/21/17 08:36 PM
Hamburg Steinway C-227
by trandinhnamanh. 09/21/17 06:28 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics181,971
Posts2,659,328
Members88,878
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0