Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum What to do when you suspect emotional abuse?

Correct. My friend, who taught in the public school system here in the area said that about CPS when I discussed this with her.

Morodiene, I don't think you explained to us this story wrinkle about possibly ceasing lessons. What's the deal? Was daughter threatened with no more piano lessons because Mom claimed she had not done her chores and schoolwork? Are there mother/daughter issues alongside the emotional abuse, or is Pop part of the problem too? Is he off winning the bread, or an engaged parent?

I like your idea of letting both parents know what a fine student their daughter is, and how much the two of you are accomplishing at the keyboard.

It's hard to know if what the 11 year old tells you is true or not and I agree with those who say to let her enjoy her lessons as a safe place.

One more idea for you: let the student know that she can talk to her pediatrician about this. She might tell her parents that she hasn't been feeling well and ask to be taken to the doctor. If she can't get time alone with the pediatrician (best choice), she can bring it up right in front of her Mom. The doc should know what to do at that point.

Presumably the child's parents are paying for the piano lessons, which she loves, transporting her to and from the lessons, possibly have purchased a piano for her to practice on? If so, strange behaviour for abusive parents...just a thought.

Here's what I would do: I would think about it a lot, and it would eat my up inside.

There are CRAZY people in this world, and some of them, too many, are parents. This puts us in a helpless position, because any attempt to help can be seen as an attack, which just makes crazier people crazier. And then they take it out on their kids.

I have no advise. Just empathy for the situation you are in.

Slightly OT, some five years ago my nieces eldest daughter was eleven years old, she and her younger sibling had enjoyed the benefit of doting parents, no expense spared, from birth...and still do.

One day my niece was late dropping the children off at their school, the eldest girls excuse to her teacher for being late was that her mother had thrown a chair at her which had hit her head!!.

My niece was busy in her office when the Social Service people arrived to say the girl had been taken into temporary care until the matter had been verified...guilty until proven innocent.

The girl eventually admitted the had made the story up to avoid detention for being late, but the Social Service people still took some convincing, there being no sign of injury to the girls head being the deciding factor.

The girl is now a normal, seemingly well adjusted, sixteen year old teenager, we'll never know why she did that, she doesn't know herself.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of abuse cases go unnoticed and/or un-notified to authorities. If we as a society were to err, shouldn't we err on the side that advocates for children? Even if the child in question is telling blatant lies and gross exaggerations, when the truth is revealed, wouldn't the child be the one in deep trouble, at least to her parents?

Precisely.

This thread has unfortunately trashed an entire profession of dedicated overworked and underpaid people on the basis of a couple anecdotes.

Yes, it can happen that a child is temporarily removed from innocent parents. But there is considerable oversight and these children are quickkly returned.

It is not a case of the parent being guilty until proven otherwise, but of the child deserving protection until proven otherwise.

These workers see the worst parents every day, children with broken bones, burns, sexual abuse, everything; when things turn ugly they can only hope police will arrive on time.

And they see mistaken or deliberately false allegations every day, too, and learn to get past them and on to the real work as quickly as they can.

Home schoolers are a special case. Piano teachers probably see a lot of them. Lessons are a natural addition to the home curriculum, and these kids are available during the day. My point was that for some homeschoolers, you can expect an irrational overreaction twards CPS. And if you get any information about CPS from a homeschooler, it will be negative even though they've never had any personal contact. They get a lot of newsletters with horror stories.

TimR, how extensive is your contact with homeschoolers? I don't know if there is a big difference between the United States and Canada. My experience spans 10 years. There are two general populations: the religious type that homeschools because of religous values - a rather liberal-minded type that homeschools for a variety of reasons. When homeschoolers network, they can access educational resources such as museum programs; art, music, gymnastic, language programs open to groups, etc. In those 10 years I never ran into attitudes toward the CPS or other agencies. However, 15 - 20 years back homeschooling was not as accepted by the authorities, and some sought to frighten parents into re-enrolling their children by citing non-existent laws. One tactic was to tell parents that if their children did not attend school then the children would be removed from their parents. If that is still happening where you are, then I can see that kind of reaction. That's not irrational hostility in this case. In fact, I remember when I got that kind of phone call. This was a fact and not a strange attitude toward CPS. I would not expect that to be happening now, at least over here.

Bluebilly that reminds me of a situation growing up. My elderly grandmother lived with us and in her 80's she was hospitalized. A nurse asked my mom how grandma got bruises on her arms. Mom said "That's from where I beat her." (Really not funny, but Mom thought it was). As it turned out the nurse just glared accusingly at mom.

BTW elderly folks on coumadin can bruise VERY easily...so they probably figured that out.

Actually, she is a voice student. And her mother told her that she (the 11 year old) would have to pay for the last month's of lessons, also as a punishment. I know very well what abusive behavior looks like. I'm sure her parents are doing their best, but when they feel out of control, they lash out by taking away what they know the child loves in order to 'reign them in'.

Some other posters have implied that the student was lying. From what I've seen about her, she displays typical behavior of an abused child: somewhat shy, very reserved emotionally, extremely mature for her age, and her home life from what she has told me seems very scattered and inconsistent (not consistent in showing up for lessons or lesson payments), the mother avoids me by not answering my phone calls or emails and then has the child respond to me, things like that. So it's not just the student's word for it, but all the evidence put together. That on top of the fact that when a child is crying hysterically and telling you she wants to kill herself, you don't dismiss that as crocodile tears.

I suspect there are vast cultural and regulatory differences between the US and Canada.

In the US regulation is state by state. A large number of states either have no requirement or require only notifications. A handful require notification and some test scores. Only six (of fifty) require an approved curriculum.

My impression is that homeschooling has expanded dramatically over the past ten years in the US. Certainly the attitudes of the people I have contact with have changed dramatically. Of course that's a small population, but it's caused me to do a bit of research. 20 years ago I used to run into people who like you say had liberal attitudes and homeschooled for various reasons - now it's mostly for religious and political reasons, and these tend to be towards the extreme conservative ends of both. (They no longer take kids out of "public" schools, they remove them from "government brainwashing.") Some of them still do an excellent job but I have concerns about the long term trends. Hopefully the ones you run into are more moderate.

My children are now in their mid-twenties, so I haven't stayed on top of it since they entered and graduated from high school. There was a lot of positive feedback by the high school on their experience with homeschoolers entering the system for the first time. Our own decision came when I found my five year old wandering the streets two blocks from the school rather than the kindergarten where I had placed him, the teacher unaware that one of her pupils was missing and unapologetic. We got a copy of the curriculum guidelines and met those objectives so that at any time the boys could enter school and have the same academic background as their peers.

In the middle of this the province had an "educational reform" where grade 13 disappeared, and every subject was effectively brought down one grade. Thus the grade 9 kids were doing math that the year before kids were doing in grade 10, i.e. squeezing two grades into one year. Teachers admitted that the "university stream" math. should be avoided since it was close to an impossibility. We were spared that since our guys were a head anyway. We were spared teacher strikes, turmoil, and politics happening at the time. Those only hit us once the boys entered school and we had to join teachers and parents fighting to keep the programs open. I got to do a lot of tutoring as schooled kids tried to cope with the reforms. (Sorry about the digression, folks.)

Morodiene, in your safe studio you are literally giving this young girl a voice. That is profound. You might even offer to see her twice a week instead of just once, and call it a scholarship. Keep yourself part of the sphere of influence, if at all possible.

We're with you.

I am NOT saying that your instincts are wrong. You know the girl, and it does sound like there are a lot of signs that something is wrong.

Still, I felt that I should say that your description of her temperament (shy, emotionally reserved, mature for her age, scattered home life) sounds a lot like me as a child, and I can only describe my parents as loving. I am still close to them. I was just one of those kids who struggled socially and was way too sensitive from a very young age, crying at pretty music and the like. But I was the oldest of five children, and a somewhat serious, responsible type of child, so all of it just came together. Also, my parents are pretty scatter-brained, a trait I have unfortunately inherited from them. We were not infrequently forgetting about piano lessons or just tardy.

Which is to say, sometimes something is going on, and sometimes it isn't. I think there's enough information in this thread to help you make a good decision, but ultimately, you're the one who is best equipped to make it. I did like the advice of suggesting the girl talk to a crisis hotline or a school counselor, someone better suited to dealing with things like this than a piano teacher.

Also, if her parents are ending her lessons, how would you feel about teaching her for free over Skype? Otherwise, your influence over her may end, and if she really cares about piano, she may feel even more isolated and hopeless. Not to say you have to, but it may be something to consider.

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The public schools usually have clear guidelines for teachers when suspecting child abuse. These guidelines may also work well for private teachers. You might be able to find out by calling the school district or the child's school. Even though the social services may not be as good as one hopes for, they are still more experienced dealing with such issues than individual teachers. It's not a regular teacher's responsibility, nor in his/her training, to prove abuse and to be the counselor for the kid. If you feel strongly that there is abuse, you should report. Others (school psychologists, police, whoever is appropriate in this case) should follow up.

"...You can always call a crisis hotline yourself and explain what she has confided in you- they can help determine whether or not this is just mindless talk or if she's seriously thought about it as a way out..."

"...I would act on this. It's always after the fact that people lament not having foreseen the awful consequence..."

Being in the Deep South, besides the legal authorities people often turn to clergy for advice in situations of doubt. Even if you are not a member yourself, it's a resource you can probably utilize, and many of these guys do have some training in the practical aspects.

I can well understand how you can feel loath to take any of the suboptimal choices you see. Maybe there are more options than you are aware of; for example, some sort of mentoring program, or an outreach for at-risk kids.

A child who speaks openly about killing herself is at risk, and really needs to--- at least--- be evaluated by a person trained in how to help. I'm loath to offer much advice, but if she mentions this again, you might ask if she has thought of how she intends to make this happen, and in what way she imagines things would be better afterward, if she did. And possibly, ask if she could think of anything besides this she might do that could improve things in her life.

Her answers to these questions (if she has any) would help the trained professional you turn to, to figure out what's going on and how best to help.

If I, personally, heard a person speaking about ending his life and was willing to ask these few probing questions, I would also feel I needed to add my encouragement, and to urge the person to put these thoughts away from himself. Even to take one little step away is healthier.

But, I don't really remember what the world looks like to a person of such a young age, nor have I the special training. That it why I think it is most important at the present for you to get advice... and not just to ask a website.

Well... best of luck.

Abusive parents generally behave non-rationally.

One characteristic is that they tend to display completely different behaviour to outsiders and to insiders, and from one moment to the next. The same person who proudly polishes the family car in the street, bragging to the neighbour about their child's achievements, will - ten minutes later, and behind closed doors - put an axe through the family's refrigerator or a child's bed, or indeed the piano, blaming the mother or the child for their rage/action with some twisted excuse for logic.

Unfortunately for the child concerned, it's impossible to meet all the demands of an emotionally abusive parent. Abusive parents are seeking an outlet for their malady, so if the child meets the demands already made, the parent will just invent a new demand that hasn't been met. It's not about the child, it's about the parent, but the child doesn't know that.

There may be one parent that is the main abuser, while the other parent tries to do nice things for the child (sometimes 'out of sight' of the abuser) but effectively consents to the abuse by not doing anything about it.

The best thing for the child is to have an adult who is normal to turn to. This has many advantages for the child. It's an escape, it soothes, it provides the child with a representation of normality that they do not otherwise have (incredibly important for their long-term well-being), and it's a place of safety when things get seriously bad.

The thing an abusive parent fears most is loss of power and control, and public humiliation, through exposure. I'd be very wary of any form of exposure unless there is a certainty of follow through e.g. children's services.

[In my home, the consenting parent bought a £30 piano, and the abusive parent wielded the axe. In my case, the intervention was by my headmistress, who approached local childrens' services.]