Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Aural Tuning

That's not the trend I'm seeing. Many times when people see me device (TuneLab or TUNIC OnlyPure) they are fascinated (Cool, that's on your phone?). They will even sometimes say, "Well, that must be much more accurate than tuning by ear." I assure them that I'm always listening but that, yes, it is very accurate. So, their "perception" is that I'm doing or using something that is superior. Now, I know it's not superior to aural tuning but why would I sit there and try to convince them otherwise?

Maybe people don't explicitly ask for an ETD tuner but many are coming to appreciate them. Example: I was asked to tune two Yamaha grands for a local business man who is also a great pianist and has a recording studio. The guy who had tuned aurally for him for years wasn't getting the job done properly. He tried to talk to him about it because he was also his friend but he didn't want to hear it, so he hired me. I used TUNIC OnlyPure on them both (by the way he watched me tune and saw the program) and he was very happy. Later on I saw his wife at the Country Club when I was tuning the piano there and she stopped me to tell me how pleased her husband was with my work and that he would be calling me again.

Another local tuner in his late 60's has lost his upper hearing and can't hear the last octave. Fortunately for him he has used an Accutuner for years and relies totally on it for those notes. An ETD can extend your career and you can still produce solid tunings even with hearing loss.

I have a customer that is a local pianist and has produced many CD's, he switched back to me after hiring the president of our local PTG chapter.

Is ETD superior to aural tuning? Of course not. I'm just giving you another perspective.

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the explanation Jeff H. I have tried tuning unison's all the way up to C-88 with it. Sometimes, it's dead on and very accurate. Other times it "ain't." It has the most difficulty with false beats. It just doesn't know which one of them to listen too.

Strange, today, speaking of false beats. I was tuning a Steinway B. Up in the treble right around G-6 or so, I started having serious false beats. Not just that But, in one string alone, I was able to count 3 separate beats! So now, we have 3 false beats in one wire??? I don't remember ever encountering that before. In the other 2 wires, each wire had 2 false beats in it. Gee. That means, 7 false beats to listen too on top of 3 normal beats. I got it in tune but, only aurally because the machine was going NUTS! So was I but, I'm already nuts!! Shutup you guys now, I can read minds too you know!!!

I mean almost never use a device to check any part of my tuning. I set A440 with a fork and go from there.

[edit to add] When I first was learning my new tuning method(listening for the fundamental sweet spot vs. listening for beatless partials), I used Cleartune to check myself in the high treble to make sure my tinnitus wasn't masking what I was trying to hear.

Aha. I find that as well, although I usually just go for the "sweet spot." The "swish" tends to drive me crazy.

Wow. Thank you all for your comments. This has been very enlightening, and I feel better about my decision to stick with my "HAT."

However, what I read here about using an ETD for pitch raises sounds awfully tempting...

<<However, what I read here about using an ETD for pitch raises sounds awfully tempting...>>

Guilty, guilty. The darn machines are quite good at calculating the correct overpull to nail the pitch for your second pass. With the TUNELAB program operating in 'pitch raise' it actually measures EACH wire as you go, and sets the overpull required to settle the pitch correctly by averaging the last 5 notes relative 'flatness'. If it tends to put things too high or too low, as your experience shows you, then you can reach in and change the overpull percentage to suit your individual technique. How cool is that?

Just sayin',
I remain,
Swirling the whiskey,

Gerry,
Using an external microphone helps a lot with certain pianos in the upper octaves. My netbook mic is good for most pianos but sometime I have to use an external mic when the display is jumping all over the place from the false beats. Once the mic is being use the pointer is accurate

Thanks Wayne. It's faster to just put the thing in tune by ear. Not I'm just being a smarty pantzzzz.... But, I guess it is true. I do enjoy using the ETD. Either way we look at it, most are in agreement that aural tuning is used with the ETD. Which you must have because, you notice how to figure it out yourself.

True that, Jerry! For me, the initial pass on a pitch raise goes faster with Tunelab, but that's because I always would end up listening too hard and trying to get it too close. My first pass through, I just shoot for getting it between the lines; takes about 15 minutes at the most to plow through it.

Fine tuning that second pass is faster by ear (for me, anyway!).

Jerry,

So aurally, how'd you get past the garbage.

This beating muck was defeating my ear in the treble, until I spent some serious ear taining time, learning to ignore all the beats, and rather learning to listen to the fundamental or audible pitches...uhh...like I do when being a musician.

Way more funner-er than listening to bloody beats! And my trebles have improved dramatically, both efficiency-wise and musicially-wise (new word).

I will say that the TUNIC software can listen past this garbage, and come up with really excellent unisons. I actually found the TUNIC helped me retrain my musicain's ear, as I said, to listen past the beats, up there.

Now one might say, "well then why don't you just use the software, bub"?

And I would say (to this imagined questioner), because the experience of listening way deep inside the tone is such a pleasurable experience, that it completely quiets my brain, and I experience the tuning as a meditation. It is a fully musical experience, which I really, really miss when using the software.

The software does help move things along though, no doubt about it.

Jim Ialeggio

Wayne, what mic are you using?

nothing special, just something I pick up at the Source (old Radio Shack)for computers. The on board mic is so small, you need something a bit bigger. http://www.thesource.ca/estore/prod...gory=HeadsetsAndMics&product=2616448

Which ETD do you use?

In a generation or two, tuning software will be fully integrated in the toolbox, and tuners will look back to our discussions and find them strange. Maybe they will even smile a little. IMHO

Verituner

in a generation or two humans will have USB port on top of their head to load the latest software

Heh. That makes me feel better about pulling the $300 trigger last night: I went ahead and bought Tunelab for my iPhone. looking forward to the next pitch raise...

15 minutes...

Makes me misty-eyed.

I'm not Jerry, but I'll tell you my method. After making sure the strings are seated on the bridge, I first isolate the string with the false beat - if there are more than one in a unison, I isolate each one separately - and listen to get a feel for the beat rate of the false beat. I first will pull the false beating string up and down a couple of cents to see if the beat goes away. If it does, then I leave it off that little bit and adjust my tuning around it - I prefer being off an indiscernible amount and beatless. If that doesn't work(and it rarely does), I then, one string at a time, turn the neighboring strings up or down and employ selective hearing to listen for the real beats and ignore the false ones.

Kind of tedious, but it the clearest way I can do it.