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Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186491 02/13/05 03:29 PM
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teachum Offline OP
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This is the first time I've ever started a controversial subject (other than male hula dancers), but I'm sorry, this whole controversy is just stupid, IMHO. Now it's getting to the point where a recent new buyer won't even say what he bought. How ridiculous. We are here to share info, experiences and thoughts. As long as we are not trying to sell anything, it doesn't hurt a thing. I for one refuse to be muzzled just because some think this forum is biased. Maybe those of us who own Estonias are just big-mouths, but the rest of you have every bit as much right to go on about your new/old pianos too. I love to hear people who love their pianos and I don't care what brand it is. There are a lot of wonderful pianos out there, let's hear about them ALL!!!!! :t:


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186492 02/13/05 03:45 PM
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Well said teachum!

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186493 02/13/05 04:01 PM
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What did he say that makes you think any of this has to do with you or Estonias?

It reads more to me like he is stating he found a piano he loved, and that is far more important to him than which brand.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186494 02/13/05 04:02 PM
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Ori Offline
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Yes teacum!!!
Everyone can speak their mind about their pianos and experiences.
Especially if they are positive.
There is nothing wrong with giving compliments to any instrument that you like.


Ori Bukai - Owner/Founder of Allegro Pianos - CT / NYC area.

One can usually play at our showroom:

Bluthner, Steingraeber, Estonia, Haessler, Sauter, Kawai, Steinway, Bosendorfer and more.

www.allegropianos.com
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186495 02/13/05 04:15 PM
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teachum Offline OP
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I don't know that it does have anything to do with it. But usually people are busting their buttons to say what they bought and we are all anxious to hear it and congratulate them. Now, suddenly, there's someone who won't say what they bought. Just thought it was kind of weird. I don't care what he bought - I'm just happy to see someone find something love, whatever it is.


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186496 02/13/05 04:16 PM
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Teachum,

I thought exactly the same thing.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186497 02/13/05 04:18 PM
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I see.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186498 02/13/05 04:19 PM
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Teachum - Excellent advice. Right on!! thumb


Mark

New sig line in the works....
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186499 02/13/05 05:00 PM
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I am not sure that I understand the allusion above to political correctness. It seems to me that "political correctness" is simply a kind of conformity. The usual practice here is to announce the brand and model that one has chosen. The person who did not do so was, I think, being politically incorrect, as far as this BB is concerned. I think the effect of political correctness is to stifle individual points-of-view by shaming people who differ.

The prevailing view on this BB seems to be very brand-name and marketing-oriented (this is true of American culture as a whole; we are absolutely inundated with advertising and this is the result).

It is interesting that this brand-identity thing is so strong here, despite the ever-present references to the individuality of pianos and preparation of pianos.

I felt very strongly the reticence of the poster who did not identify his piano and I felt it was a reasonable response from a person who might be sensitive to the (sometimes not very sensitve) strong opinions of others.


Mike
Registered Piano Technician
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Not currently working in the piano trade.
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186500 02/13/05 05:16 PM
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teachum Offline OP
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I don't believe anyone would make a negative remark about his choice. But it is the first time I have seen someone withhold the brand of what they bought. The brand isn't important, it's just simply sharing someone else's pleasure at which piano was the ONE for them. I have never seen anyone say, "Well, what did you go and buy THAT piano for?" Only place I ever heard that was addressed to me by a local dealer who was mad that I didn't buy what he was selling. And I shall not name the brand! Because that would be insensitive. If you have been following the whole discussion Casalborgne, there is some feeling out there that the E-word is being bandied about too much. That's why I made the reference to Piano PC.


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186501 02/14/05 09:05 AM
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Anyway. . .

I have an OOOOLLLLLDDDD George Steck grand. I think it dates to 1912. Sure, I would love something NEW, but that will be a few years though. Its kinda tough because I work around new pianos everyday and at the end of the day, I have to go home to this old timer. The character that our Steck holds is unimaginable to most. The cabinet speaks of the true workmanship of the time, very decorative and fits nicely into the formal living room. It has been refinished on the outside, but only reconditioned on the inside. Lets just say I am sure it could use a complete rebuild, but when it comes time, I am sure we will got new or gently used.


Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
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Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186502 02/14/05 09:20 AM
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I've also been trying to figure out the recent offense taken by the PW community regarding people discussing Estonia. It's like we have discussed it too much, and people feel that out of fairness, we should be discussing something else?

What isn't fair game to discuss here? Why would threads about Estonia be perceived as anything negative to any other brand? I'd love to discuss C. Bechsteins. Someone, open a thread about them, and let's talk about the different models and how they compare against other makes!

Lastly, everyone in this community, when they buy a new piano, regardless of brand, should post pictures and a story explaining their choice, for the benefit for those who are lurking the boards in search of help in their own piano purchases. Buying a piano is not easy so there should be much more support for those going through such an ordeal!

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186503 02/14/05 11:21 AM
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I have not been shy to say that I have bought a Steinway. I don't think that it's the danger of scorn toward the choice that Steinway owners fear about this board. Rather, it's the reaction by many that it was only purchased for the name, or as Ori once told me, that we've fallen for the Steinway bill of goods. There are certainly posters who don't fall into this group, but there are far too many people who do. And while some Steinway owners may have bought it for the name, many of us actually bought it because of the tone and the action of the instrument. Even though I'm a beginner, I can still appreciate the qualities of my Steinway that's home and the one that will be home at some point.

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186504 02/14/05 11:32 AM
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I think I'm about the only person on the forum who owns a Sohmer. I love my Sohmer and it's perfect for my family. It's fits our budget, the cabinetry is gorgeous (very important to the STBXX) and I love the tone. What frustrated me in the past is when certain people (and not only Estonia owners) tout their piano as being perfect for everyone. Everyone has different budgets and different tastes and what's perfect for me may not necessarily be perfect for others. Estonia owners should be proud of their pianos and there's nothing wrong IMHO with a satisfied customer jumping for joy with whatever they own. Salespeople on the other hand....

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186505 02/14/05 11:37 AM
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Well said justme.

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186506 02/14/05 11:59 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by ossk8ter:
I have not been shy to say that I have bought a Steinway. I don't think that it's the danger of scorn toward the choice that Steinway owners fear about this board. Rather, it's the reaction by many that it was only purchased for the name, or as Ori once told me, that we've fallen for the Steinway bill of goods. There are certainly posters who don't fall into this group, but there are far too many people who do. And while some Steinway owners may have bought it for the name, many of us actually bought it because of the tone and the action of the instrument. Even though I'm a beginner, I can still appreciate the qualities of my Steinway that's home and the one that will be home at some point.
ossk8ter,

I agree with your sentiment exactly. There is a very obvious perception on this board that those buying Steinway are either furniture buyers or not as smart as those here who bought some other brand.

People are polite here. No one comes out and tells a Steinway owner that. But boy listen to the advice you get if you're considering a Steinway but have not yet purchased. It's about the poorest choice you can make according to the feedback you will get here.

There is group think here that is not so much intentional as it is a collection of similar opinions generalized. M&H is the best premium piano to buy, Estonia the best in the price category below premium and Dongbei manufactured Chinese in the low price range. That's all you need to know. It's like an abridged version of competition to Larry Fine. Maybe Frank can just post it as an FAQ and save the newbies a lot of time. wink


There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186507 02/14/05 12:06 PM
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Thanks JohnC, and well put yourself, although the forum does give the love to some (but not all) European brands.

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186508 02/14/05 12:30 PM
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That is interesting ossk8ter.. Ori actually told you you fel for Steinway's bill of goods? I'd enjoy reading the post if you remember which one it was.

People may like them or not.. but there are an awful lot of great Steinways out there.. I've played any number of them, new and used.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186509 02/14/05 12:51 PM
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Even if one buys a Steinway just for the name sake, there should be no shame attached to it.

There is nothing that makes buying a musical instrument fundamentally any better than buying furniture or status symbol.

Who is to say that a person buying a musical mid-priced European piano is fundamentally any better than another person buying an exclusive American marquee or yet another restaurateur buying the cheapest Asian grand possible to dress up his dining lounge?

IMO, as long as one is aware of what exactly it is that one is seeking in a piano (can be any combination of musical attributes, brand prestige/exclusivity, peer approval, furniture appeal, price, resale consideration, etc.), any informed purchase that is optimized for one's true and honest objectives is a smart and good purchase. smile

Quote
teachum wrote:

I love to hear people who love their pianos and I don't care what brand it is. There are a lot of wonderful pianos out there, let's hear about them ALL!!!!!
As for speaking about my own piano... I've posted two recordings of it recently, and I will have other recordings of it going into the Piano World CD Project -- A picture is worth a thousand words, but an mp3 is worth a million words! (This is mathematically true once your audio file gets past a few megabytes. wink )

And I started that other piano-talk thread to talk about other people's pianos.

Nonetheless, I want to bring up yet another neglected piano here -- the Steinberg IQ77 grand piano. I have never played or heard any Steinberg piano life, but forumite Kevin sent in a very nice sounding recording of his Steinberg for the CD Project. I thought it sounds very beautiful, so at the very least, I can say that I think the Steinberg records very well! I look forward to the oportunity to play a Steinberg in the future. thumb

Re: Now we have PC (piano correctness)
#186510 02/14/05 01:04 PM
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Michael: It was in a post shortly after I joined the board (I tried a search but I couldn't get that far back). I had done a topic as to whether Estonia had become price pointed, and several people took that to mean I was anti-Estonia. Anyway, I posted something in another thread that I didn't start and Ori responded that he thought I was intelligent but had been taken in by the Steinway salesman. Now to Ori's credit and to aid full disclosure, I received a very nice PM from Ori after I announced the purchase of the Santos Rosewood B.

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