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Joined: Dec 2011
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The bottom line is, to get a Kawai wooden action, Europeans need to pay 20% more than their American peers - and if you are from Central/Eastern Europe, then the number is even higher, about 40%.
Can anybody offer a rational explanation for this?
Thank you for your help:
Kristof The listed European prices include up to 20% VAT.
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The listed European prices include up to 20% VAT. Actually, the level of VAT is not the same across the EU; it's changing between 15% and 27%. (But yes, that explains almost all the difference ... not that it makes it all that easier to swallow it.) Kristof
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The bottom line is, to get a Kawai wooden action, Europeans need to pay 20% more than their American peers - and if you are from Central/Eastern Europe, then the number is even higher, about 40%. - European women are 20% more beautiful than American women. - Central/Eastern European women are 20% even more beautiful again. James x
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Is the CE220 a comparable alternative to the CN33? I've had my eye on the CN33 but the CE220 is getting rave reviews, and at a $400 lower cost. The biggest difference I can see between the two is:
- AWA ProII action (CE220) vs. RH with letoff (CN33) - 22 sounds (CE220) vs. 36 sounds (CN33) - satin black cabinet finish (CE 220) vs. multiple finishes (CN33)
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NatFL, yes, the CE220 and CN33 are quite similar. I definitely prefer the cabinet design of the CN33 over the CE220, however in terms of specifications, the wooden key action is arguably the winner.
Cheers, James x
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I think I'd probably go with the CE, even if they were the same price.
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A couple more things: [*]192 (CE220) vs. 92 notes of polyphony (CN33) [*]CN33 has Concert Magic (88 Songs) & built-in Alfred lessons
Phoenix Tong :: Programmer :: Belmont, CA :: Piano dad :: Kawai MP10, Grotrian Model 189
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Thank you everyone! I see positive points to both instruments. Unfortunately my budget is low enough that anytime I think of buying the CN33, I freak out and tell myself, "You cannot afford a $2000+ instrument!"
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I haven't been able to find a store with a CE220 to try out yet. My local Kawai store in Long Island (Frank and Camille's) still has the CE200 and isn't sure when they will be getting the CE220 in stock. Since my old Clavinova 300 is turning 25 years old this year, I had wanted to get a new digital piano. I had liked the keyboard action on the CE200 but wasn't impressed with the sound. I had been leaning towards the Yamaha YDP-181, which has decent key action and a good sound (and in my under $2,000 price range), but I really want to wait to try out the CE220. Hopefully they'll be in stores soon. Does anyone know if they will only be in Kawai piano stores? My local Sam Ash used to stock the CE200, but they don't have either the CE200 or the CE220 at this point. Thanks.
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shgmd, if your local Sam Ash stocked the CE200, they should stock the CE220 too...once the back orders are cleared.
Cheers, James x
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The 220 has the second generation harmonic imaging, which is a pretty significant step up from the original version. I mean, it's the same basic sound, but better. You might like it better.
The YDP 181 (or 161) is a pretty decent piano too, though.
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Thanks, Kawai James and gvfarns. I believe that either the YPD-181 or CE220 will be significant steps up from the original Clavinova that I have used all these years - both in the actions and in the sounds !
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The 220 has the second generation harmonic imaging, which is a pretty significant step up from the original version. I mean, it's the same basic sound, but better. You might like it better. Actually, the main piano sound(s) are different - the CE220 utilises 88-key sampling, and therefore draws upon audio data from a more modern recording session. A brief history of Kawai's (recent) piano sound: - Harmonic Imaging - Harmonic Imaging (HI), 88-key sampling * - Progressive Harmonic Imaging (PHI), 88-key sampling * - Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging (UPHI), 88-key sampling * * = utilise audio data from same recording session Cheers, James x
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Interesting. What I meant is that it has the same basic character (i.e., a Kawai EX piano in the anechoic chamber and the sonic signature of harmonic imaging). Just a newer, improved version (apparently of both the recording session and the technology).
Thanks for giving us the information about the recording sessions. Interesting indeed!
Last edited by gvfarns; 02/19/12 06:27 PM.
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NatFL, yes, the CE220 and CN33 are quite similar. I definitely prefer the cabinet design of the CN33 over the CE220, however in terms of specifications, the wooden key action is arguably the winner.
Cheers, James x Okay, I've looked at detailed pictures of both and I can't really see a difference between the two cabinet designs. The display area looks a little more bulky to me on the CE220. Is this what you mean? P.S. Thanks for all the information you've shared about both models!
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NatFL, it's just my subjective, personal opinion, however I feel that the CN33 cabinet design is more elegant than the CE220. CN33:CE220:(image from Kawai America website) Cheers, James x
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I've ordered a CE220 at the beginning of the month. I was expecting it this week, but I've heard back from my dealer that it will be delay a couple more weeks. Given the delay I am offered the chance to cancel the order.
Meanwhile I found on craigslist an used MP10 for $1500. MP10 is certainly going to be improvement, all I need is to get a stand and some speakers. Any suggestions on what speakers would go with it?
I do have a home theater amp connected to a pair of B&W Matrix 8.1, perhaps I could just hook them up.
Phoenix Tong :: Programmer :: Belmont, CA :: Piano dad :: Kawai MP10, Grotrian Model 189
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Has anyone picked up a CE220 yet? I'm anxious to see some pictures of it and read reviews. I'm seriously considering this model. After getting reacquainted with piano during a visit to my family's place this weekend, I am *itching* to finally make my DP purchase! :-)
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I am also very anxiously waiting for the CE220 to be available to try it out. I had previously tried out the CE200 and liked the action, but wasn't too impressed with the sound. As I am looking in the $1500-$2000 max. range, I have also included on my "short" list the Yamaha YDP-181 and the Roland RP-301. When I recently tried out the latter, I was actually surprised by how much I liked the "ivory-feel" touch and the piano sounds. As a classically-trained pianist, I am most interested in good piano action and sound, not needing other bells and whistles. My local Kawai dealer wasn't quite sure how soon the CE-220 was going to be coming in, and at my local Sam Ash store, which had previously stocked the CE200, the salesperson I had spoken with had not even heard about the CE220. Hope it's here soon!
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My local Kawai salesperson (Frank and Camille's of Long Island, NY) called me today to tell me that she doesn't expect to get the CE220 in store until April or May.
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