Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Perception of the PTG from non members

I'm on board with Jeff also. The customer calls you back, not the piano. I've had people over the years tell me about the last tuner that told them everything their piano needed (and they hadn't asked) and they didn't call them back. Now, I'm not saying the piano may not have needed all those things but usually my policy is, if they don't ask for an evaluation of their piano I won't give it. I know this runs counter to what the PTG would say.

Well, for me anyway, the Guild almost embodies it. The problems aren't with the content or conventions (not at all!), nor the character of the individuals who make up the membership...all good there...

The problems are with membership, actual relevance, and marketing.

For example, in MY ideal Guild the following would be true:

1. All members would enjoy full benefits of inclusivity in advertising on the website. Various members could still have different levels, qualifications, et al. A basic RPT would not be expected to know rebuilding in detail, for instance...nor would somebody who mainly rebuilds be ignored on the site simply because s/he isn't RPT. Even the Boy Scouts celebrate ALL of their members, not just the Eagle Scouts. Reserving advertising within the Guild for just RPT members is very conterproductive-at least when viewed from the outside looking in anyway.

2. The organization would change its image from one which attempts to qualify technicians for the job in the eyes of the general public, to a new image where the primary purpose is EDUCATION AND ADVOCACY for the industry AND the public. Once the Guild is seen primarily as an outreach organization where education is uppermost then it would pretty unavoidable for the average technician to avoid joining! (What?!, you aren't part of the educational continuim??")...

3. Following that point, new members would be allowed into the full benefits of membership once they pledge to the code of ethics, and that is that.

4. There would still be ways within the Guild to distinguish one's self...RPT, or CAUT, CE (continuing educational member)plus possibly Craftsman/Rebuilder et al...but in MY Guild everybody would benefit from advertising on the website/Journal and everybody would, in turn, become a walking advertisment FOR the Guild. After all, why not?? If I as a new member of that Guild was able to SEND people to the website without being degraded/ignored/invisible, then I'd be more interested in availing myself of the great organizational supports, and sharing those with my clients.

5. My Guild would grow exponentially due to the immediate welcoming AS TRADE PROFESSIONALS of all of my collegues...

6. In MY imaginary PTG, technicians would evolve beyond competing against NON members, into a more full communion WITH all techs. In real life, we all get along just fine...but the schism between members vs non-members would all but disappear in favor of a full welcome for everybody. Remember, the Guild would be evolving beyond promoting only SOME techs who are seen as qualified into promoting ALL techs AND THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY who are part of the family of continuing education.

7. Finally, in MY Guild the organization would become incredibly relevant in the market because so many more technicians would be part of the organization. Its already a small group industry wide, but if we focused on education and dropped the emphasis on who's qualified/not qualified, it would be a healthier way to promote. I am reminded that nobody benefits in any public endeavor when controversy is part of the package...FULL MEMBER BENEFITS FOR EVERY TECHNICIAN would tend to eliminate all the controversy.

Would any of this work? I think so, yes. But, getting people who worked hard for their RPT status to agree to open full membership/promotioin/publicity/advocacy to ALL members would take some doing. However, when compared with where PTG is today (well respected, but moreless invisible to the general public) I think the changes would be more than valuable.

I close with one thought. No city, with any number of citizens requires a vote of EVERYBODY to enact policy...I'm with whomever suggested the PTG elect a board of directors with the power to make necessary change...to fail to do this is to keep the same structure, with all the same ruts.

Respectfully and Affectionately submitted....

Rick

PS I'm a member of a smaller organization (Master Piano Techs of America) which actually adopts this membership strategy and they're growing...they're particular about new members and it took me a whole YEAR to get approved to join because they do a series of interviews, and the membership votes in new members. Still, it felt welcoming and this year's (small) convention still will be featuring Rick Baldassen, Randy Potter and other industry heavies. My point in mentioning this is that if something works well on a small scall, it will also work on a large scale....FWIW

Wow! Amazing post, RPD.

Excellent post Rick!!!! AND I agree too!!!

Thank you, Bill. What I gather from that is, when it come to the RPT exam, the result is what matters more than the methodology?

The tinnitus question got put in here because it pertains to the RPT test, which is relevant to the perception of the PTG from non members. No thank you, I won't start another thread.

After reading rXd’s excellent post, and reconsidering my own, I have something to add. The PTG’s “customers” are the RPTs. And since the PTG is also run by their “customers” that makes it a sort of co-op, or in this case, a guild. So maybe the self-promotion of the guild members is not so out of line as I think. Maybe there is absolutely nothing wrong with the PTG as it stands – they are serving their customers which are the RPTs, not the RPT’s customers which are the piano owners. I guess I am not into self-promotion.

[Edit:] I leave my promotion up to my customers.

RPD, the organization you just described sounds like....MPT.

Loren, yes...it does :-)

What I find is that the techs (to the person) within PTG are willing to help EVERYBODY with education...I've learned from Jer Groot and Bill Bremmer very valuable lessons/information...everybody shares liberally of their knowledge and experience already...so, what I propose I guess is just a formalization of that continuing education stance that the great body of PTG already adopts anyway...and just reflect it in the PTG business model.

Humbly submitted, all....

Rick

Excellent post RPD.

From an accomplished, totally committed, pushing the envelope rebuilder, who happens to be an Associate, here's what the ideal PTG is for me.

It is the accessibility to select and unbelievably generous mentors from around the country, who I realized from conventions, pianotech(old list), this forum, the journal or personal references, would be the appropriate person to help me gain a specific skill, or come to terms with a particular design issue, is what the ideal PTG is to me. Its about a network of accessible persons and knowledge with a very particular shared interest.

The last few years clearly has seen the marketing aspect, or more specifically,the "credibility to the public through certification" as it affects on perceived RPT marketability, create a wedge which threatens the accessibility of knowledge and experience I mentioned above as the reason I am a member of the PTG. Lets face it, marketing is about gaining market share. Market share is gained through competition. The marketing of the RPT is unavoidably a competitive wedge, and this is at direct odds with the shared camaraderie I mentioned above. With the marketing of the RPT comes exclusivity and false hierarchy, and just plain bull. The attendant ill will which this creates is accumulating, and when addressed, it is done so ineffectively or in a patronizing manner.

To be fair, any network will become a political entity, it's unavoidable...this PTG has a political component as would the "ideal" PTG. Politics brings on the unavoidable emotions of political wrangling. The question in the current PTG, for me, will be, will the exclusivity created by a council of RPTs, sustained by a council where non-RPTs have no representation or suffrage, ie where non-RPTs are effectively treated as children, continue to convince itself that the notion that RPT-hood confers some status and authority far exceeding the reality of the situation. Will a point be reached where the connections I treasure can more effectively be made outside the organization, rendering the PTG superfluous for me. This would be a very sad outcome for me, as much would be lost. I hope the RPT council in its infinite wisdom (ahem) can see this potentially crippling problem.

Jim Ialeggio

The cost to have a 2 day council must be tremendous. Mailing documents, room rental, hotel rooms, missed income by those who attend, chapter reimbursements, AV equipment, etc. In this economy, is the cost of council prudent?

Council does not fairly represent the members of the PTG. Chapters who do not send a delegate are not represented. Associates are not represented. The staff, who hear more about the PTG than anyone, are not represented.

The council system of decision making is too slow for this day and age.

Three reasons to dissolve council and give all members equal opportunity, regardless of title.

Sorry about that OperaTenor. I really didn't mean to be rude. I do think it would be an interesting post to ask. The reason I said something was that you directed your question to two RPT's and they're not supposed to be in the conversation. Anyway, I have tinnitus also but I tune with an ETD (although I tune the unison's by ear) so it's never been issue for me. A couple of years ago I had my hearing checked and it was excellent so maybe if I tuned by ear it wouldn't be an issue anyway. The only problem now is that when I pretend I can't hear my wife I have no excuse .

No worries, TG. I have ~5% gone in the upper reaches in both ears. I was given Gentimycin(sp?) in 1992, and the tinnitus was a side-effect.

I'm a stodge, and I have thus far resisted using an ETD, although I did use the Cleartune app on my iPhone to check myself when I was learning the new method.

Still sitting on the fence about the PTG, but the MPT is looking kinda interesting...

There has been another discussion taking place on the PTG list that is only open to members. We've been discussing the pros and cons of Associate members being full voting members and what effect it might have on the guild.

Some say that this idea is dangerous for the guild and could lead to a decline in standards.

Others feel that it would boost membership and enthusiasm. It is also felt that if voting rights were separated from credentialing that it would make it easier to add more credentials.

Other issues under discussion include the idea of opening up testing to non-members. The National Music Teachers Association does this very thing with their "Nationally Certified Teacher of Music (NCTM)" certification. Even non-members of MTNA can become NCTMs.

Would any non-members here be interested in taking the PTG exams if you could advertise it? Would you be willing to complete a minimal ammount of continuing education points and a modest annual fee in order to maintain your certification? This is how the MTNA does it. Here's a link to their re-certification rules:

http://www.mtnacertification.org/renewal/renewal-activities/

The fee for members to maintain their certification is $15 per year. For non-members it is $20.

There is some concern that if the exams are opened up to non-members that there would be less incentive to join. Do you think this is true?

How usual is it for an examining body to insist on continuing paid membership in order to retain that qualification?

Speaking as someone who has never advertised, Can anybody, for example, advertise "fully qualified by the piano technicians guild" or, "former fully qualified member" without retaining membership?

In modern society, where it is considered crass to flaunt ones attainments, how effective is 'RPT' in getting a table in a good restaurant?

I beleive modern society has gone in the other direction rxd. It was once crass or impolite to flaunt ones achievements, looked at as the same as bragging. Not so any more. In this day and age the motto "toot your own horn and toot it loudly" applies because the competition has lost that modicum of respect for peers to some degree, they will not readily toot it for you, as in the old days. Business managers are being taught the same thing now. This "advancement" still rubs some old timers the wrong way.

Jim, You may want to talk to Loren or Rick about the MPT.

Does anyone know what happened to the Philidelphia PTG chapters efforts back in 2006 to create a "Friend of the Guild" status in the PTG?

http://www.phillytuners.com/councilpage.html

I'm sure that that would happen because anything that deviates from "the standard", even if it is a good change, is considered "dangerous". For example, many techs, including myself, are using CA glue a lot especially to tighten up loose pins. Is this good or bad? There's lot's of disagreement there. This is certainly not acceptable by PTG standards so it would be considered "dangerous".

I want to step in hear briefly and clarify. I first read about CA in pinblocks in the mid 90's on the PTG pianotech list. It continues to come up from time to time and is endorsed by many RPT members.

The guild itself rarely takes a stand on a particular procedure or technique. The exams come the closest to this but leave a large amount uncovered. Experts within PTG disagree on things on a regular basis.