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I'm the same way with his piano works. I can listen to them and get much joy out of them in VERY small doses, but past that I get bored. The aria in the Goldbergs has to be one of the most beautiful things i've ever heard...but the rest of the piece i'm lukewarm on.

However, a lot of his other stuff I am extremely partial to, especially the choral music. However, I wouldn't put anything he wrote among my favourite music.

Both posts more than warrant the respective posters a place on my list.

Because we aren't too fond of a composer you like? We made subjective statements and didn't say anything about the quality of his music, just that he didn't write our preferred music.

I'm sick of people acting like, well, your signiature. Like if you don't like Bach there's something wrong with you. The high brow attitiude associated with Bach attempts to betray the fact that tastes are subjective, almost as if Bach is one of Plato's 'forms' for music despite it clearly being accessible to all. I hate to break it to you, but Bach is not a God, nor is he perfect, but rather a composer who wrote music that ones enjoyment of is completely subjective, like all other composers.

It has nothing to do with MY like or dislike. It simply means you don't get it. You lack the understanding. There is not any high brow attitude associated with Bach, any more than any other composer (and it's laughable to say so). I hate to break it to YOU, but within the forms he worked, yes, Bach, was as close to perfect as you'll find. The fact that one says they find themselves bored (and not only with Bach) with any music and still call themselves a musician is reason enough to land on my list regardless of anything else that's been mentioned. I don't honestly care whether you like Bach or not, you see.

I'm not denying that my not particularly liking Bach is much more to do with me than him, otherwise he wouldn't be considered so great. But really? There's not any more high brow attitude towards Bach than say, Liszt? Your very signature points to that attitude. Also, who defines perfect? How can Bach be perfect if so many find his music to be academic and dry? I don't care how well crafted or how pure his music is, to me and countless others Bach is not perfect or as close to perfection as you can find. Perfection, again, is subjective.

And also, 'The fact that one says they find themselves bored (and not only with Bach) with any music and still call themselves a musician is reason enough to land on my list regardless of anything else that's been mentioned' is just plain hypocritical. I've seen you call pieces boring before, and also weren't you one of the people who was on the 'against' side of the hip hop and techno debate? Welcome to your own list.

Join and embrace 'the list' with pride. Its where all the funky interesting people are hanging out, listening to and playing a wide variety of different exiting and enriching music.

I love being on 'the list' and have always been proud to stick my nose up at music snobs of any variety who make outlandish claims that their chosen and worshipped style is somehow the ultimate form of art superior to all else.

To me it's as ridiculous as people claiming that Christianity
is somehow more right and superior to Islam or Paganism. If it makes you happy that's fine - but don't try and tell anyone else they are wrong simply because you don't share their views.

Bach didn't write for the piano.

Isn't sticking one's nose up at music snobs - and being proud of it - simply another form of snobbery ??

I was waiting for someone to comment on that. I'm wondering what Bach would have written if the piano had been the most popular keyboard instrument from his birth...

schubert doesn't do anything for me.

You claim there is not a high brow attitude when it comes to Bach and yet you're trying to claim his music is perfection in a completely objective sense and anyone who disagrees "lacks understanding" or they "don't get it".

The irony in that statement is killing me.

There is some sort of superior than thou, high brow, snobby attitude among Bach fans and easily more so than any other composer. I've never seen or heard anyone try to claim Chopin or Rachmaninoff was objectively musical perfection and anyone who doesn't get their music is an idiot.

The last statement you said "I don't honestly care whether you like Bach or not, you see."

Obviously you do, you responded to them and them not liking Bach somehow put them onto some "list" of yours which you felt the need to tell people about.

Your entire post reeks of hypocrisy.

You're right, so a discussion of him doesn't even belong in this forum.

Vinn -

The reality is that people will be listening to Bach long after those of us participating in PW are gone and forgotten. It really doesn't matter whether we like or don't like Bach's music. Our personal opinions mean very little in the great scheme of things.

The list in question is an "ignore" list. You can do yourself a favor by simply ignoring him as well since his comments seem to irritate you. Life's too short.

Bach wrote for keyboard instruments, and the piano happens to be a keyboard instrument. It just wasn't around a lot when Bach was alive and composing.

I didn't say it...Debussy did. I'm betting he knew a thing or two eh?




If you knew what you were talking about then you'd realise that Bach was, indeed, as close to perfection as you'll find with the forms within he worked. There is a reason his genius is remembered today, some 260 years later, though he certainly wasn't even the most well known composer of his time (though more well known than most think). Please tell me how Bach's work is flawed (don't give me the academic/dry blah blah, because that only tells me you don't listen well) and I'll listen, but make sure you do your homework.



Firstly, I do not believe I've ever called any work boring here. If I have, please point it out and I'll eat the crow. What does the fact that I have no time for garbage like hip hop or techno have anything to do with finding a work boring or being bored, etc.? I'm not bored by it, nor do I find it boring...I find it obnoxious, ridiculous and utter garbage.

Actually, carey, there are only a few on my ignore list. The list I often mention is my "not to be taken seriously" list. That list is rather full, but there are always vacancies.

In the interest of creating more controversy I will say that Haydn's solo piano works don't do much for me. In terms of solo piano music, I probably wouldn't rate him in the top 15.

If you really want to create controversy, tell the people who disagree with you about Haydn that they don't get it and lack understanding.

Also, if his works don't do much for you, why would you even consider him for your top 15? Your use of "probably" seems to imply that that there are only about 15 composers for piano that you really like.

-J

I put in "probably" to soften my harsh words so no one would faint.

Oops - I completely forgot about the "not to be taken seriously list." Nice to know there are still plenty of spaces available on it !!!