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Thanks for that picture Erard!


As long as the key and hammer sensors are somehow physically calibrated together. However, there's a fair amount of slop in a key/hammer mechanism which might limit the precision of this calibration or make it difficult to carry out. No one likes to manufacture products that need excessive tweaking on the assembly line.


When they say "two-point" for a single sensor I believe they are describing the way a detected beam at the hammer can either mean the hammer is down or up but not within a certain region in between, the transitions in and out of the region marking two distinct positions/times. Doing this with two beams at the key gives what they call "four-point". Not sure what Yamaha is doing under the key, but with two beams you could easily do a Gray Code on the position and know for certain which of four quadrants it currently resides in, and the transitions would give you three distinct position/time detections.

If they are using the key-up velocity then I can see why they have two sensors on each key. And they probably convinced themselves that this, combined with a single sensor on the hammer with two positions, was sufficient to differentiate the various hammer/key scenarios. My feeling is that it is a bit too tricky.


It could still have quirks and bugs, particularly if there is software involved.

Has anyone here experienced an AG misfiring (note not playing when it should, note velocity obviously incorrect, etc.)?

Thankfully no. It has never done anything untoward at all. Neither did the GranTouch I owned for a few years previously. I think Dave is right, the technology is both mature and in my experience extremely reliable.

Cheers,

Steve

I haven't experienced droppped notes like what has been widely documented with the RD700GXF/RD700NX but I have played a note that didn't sound. It's very very rare, but it has happened. The AGs aren't bug proof and they aren't perfect, but they're the closest thing to playing a quality acoustic grand piano you can get out of the non acoustic world. I am very happy with mine.

I've had a few notes that I expected to hear and they didn't sound. To be fair, I've had the same happen on an acoustic so I assume the problem was me.

Interesting. Not saying that's necessarily what's going on, but killing a note rather than playing it due an ambiguous hammer sensor scenario is what I would probably do faced with the AG sensor configuration. But if I designed it I think I'd put a second real sensor on each hammer. And if money was no object I'd put continuous positional sensors on the hammers and keys.

Dewster, I'm confident with your expertise, you'd most certainly come up with oe real monster of a DP. The only problem, is none of us coud afford it!

That's my experience too. It's easy to conclude it's performer error, but I have experienced instances with the N2 where I was surprised the note didn't sound. I haven't gone back and tried to repeat the issue.

I just completely dismantled my (brand new) N1 because one of the keys regularly got stuck. (The problem was that the felt in the middle hole of the key in question was sticking out a little, preventing the key from moving smoothly.)

There was the question above as to how the position of the keys is tracked: There are two light barriers for each key, one easily visible on top of the keys in this bridge running across, and the other below the keys where you press them. From the way it's built, it's not clear to me why two sensors are needed.

There was also the question above as to how to take the N1 apart. It's fairly simple: Loosen the four screws along the upper edge of the back wall and you can slide the lid forward, disconnect the speaker cable and then lift the lid off. Everything else is just as simple and mostly self-explanatory. The only tricky thing for me was when reassembling the whole thing, I had trouble with the two long screws that adjust the heigth of this slat right above the keyboard in the front. You've got to leave the screws in there and just remove the (funny looking and ackwardly shaped) nuts - or you might end up ruining the screws as I did.)

And you've just voided your warranty. Why would you do this yourself instead of calling the dealer you bought it from, or Yamaha? Crazy....

He did not void his warranty.

When I had work done on my GranTouch, I opened the piano for the tech and showed him what I had done which was to stuff foam to prevent rattles and apply tape and\or plastic ties to keep wires and cable from vibrating against something.

I've made minor changes to my N3 ... and posted those improvements here and to Yamaha. There was no talk of voiding my warranty.

It's good to know that the warranty was not a problem. But I wouldn't dream of fixing (or even trying to fix) a brand new item by myself, especially given that there's a warranty. And even more especially after spending, what, $7000+ on it!

Did Yamaha state this specifically?

No, common sense did.

Interesting. I didn't realize that you worked for Yamaha.



Have you made a warranty claim? That's when you would find out if it had been violated or not. (Another way, I presume, would be to read the warranty, although they are not always easy to understand).

Isn't it a moot point? If doing your own work on the piano voids the warranty, how would Yamaha know that you did the work? Unless you're clumsy and did damage, there would be no way to know.

Unless you posted photos on the web.

Conventional wisdom is to wait 'til the warranty period has expired, or get the work done by an authorized service agent. I believe the standard phrase is "no user serviceable parts inside" or something to that effect.

Indeed. But to quote Singleton:

"You've got to leave the screws in there and just remove the (funny looking and ackwardly shaped) nuts - or you might end up ruining the screws as I did.)"

Some manufacturers of consumer electronics (Blu-Ray/DVD players etc) coat inside surfaces of their equipment in a way that causes marks when the surfaces are touched so they can see if curiosity has got the better of an owner. Why give a company an easy way out of their obligations? If they see chewed-up screw heads they can walk away - and I'm not sure I would blame them. I expect all warranties state something like "repairs must be carried out by authorised persons", and I would also expect what Lawrence says to be found; "no user-servicable parts inside".

Who would try to carry out repairs on a new car for instance? We are not talking about tweaks or the fitting of accessories (so Dave, those furry dice of yours won't void your warranty) - we are talking about full-on repairs here. You'd have to be mad or in a real emergency situation to have a go yourself if there was the manufacturer's warranty still in place. Just my thoughts anyway.

Steve

Well, I have to agree with that. If I pay large for a piano, I expect it to work. If it doesn't, the maker is on the hook.
... "Why give a company an easy way out of their obligations?"
and
... "You'd have to be mad or in a real emergency situation to have a go yourself if there was the manufacturer's warranty still in place."

I've had techs in my house to work on my GranTouch, these guys work for Yamaha but they also work for other companies as well; they've jumped through hoops to be labeled a Yamaha technician.

If you've opened the keyboard in question and explain what you've done ... and you haven't broken anything in the process, it's been my experience that you're treated as a responsible adult.

That's great - and a very impressive affirmation for Yamaha. But if that is so, it makes Yamaha absolutely outstanding according to my experience, which has been that manufacturers and shops will do anything to avoid honouring their guarantees if they can legally do so.

Two recent examples: I once repaired a DETACHABLE mains lead to a portable TV. When that TV went on the blink, I took it to the repair station where they informed me I'd voided the warranty.

And my daughter put her newish mobile phone into repair because the buttons didn't function correctly. They refused to repair it under guarantee because it 'had been exposed to damp'. Well, she is very careful with her stuff and it had never had an accident of any kind - just normal usage.

In other words, 'damp', incurred through normal use (keeping your phone in your pocket), means they do not need to provide any after sales service.

No, guarantees aren't worth much more than the paper they're written on in my experience. Better buy something that won't be likely to go wrong, or be prepared to fix it yourself (ebay has been a great help for this, by the way.)

And going anywhere near a device with a screw driver would surely land you straight in the sh** if you were to have a problem later.