Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
94 registered members (anotherscott, Alex Hutor, ACSlater, Abdol, 36251, Animisha, AlphaBravoCharlie, Alex_G, Beemer, 24 invisible), 1,086 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: Glenn NK] #1836403
02/01/12 11:40 AM
02/01/12 11:40 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
B
bfb Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
bfb  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted by Glenn NK
My take on this is that if each key/note of a piano only produced the fundamental (no overtones at all), it could be possible. But that is not the case.

Even the simplest of cases (hypothetical of course) where each note had only the fundamental and the first overtone (an octave higher), and the pianist struck only two keys an octave apart (dampers on the strings to prevent SR), how could software tell if one or two or three keys were struck?


Glenn


seems like you could program the recognition software to only indicate notes or signals at a certain volume or dynamic level? it would seem the overtones would have a different dynamic signature than the struck note? not that i have a clue...


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1836435
02/01/12 12:14 PM
02/01/12 12:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 980
Canada
Serge88 Offline

Silver Subscriber
Serge88  Offline

Silver Subscriber

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 980
Canada
There is Band in a Box from pgmusic with Chord analysis. Here what they say,
"The Audio Chord Wizard has the amazing ability to analyze, extract, and show the chords from audio recordings on-screen and then write them to the Band-in-a-Box chord sheet."

I tried it a few times and it help me find the melody and the chords of a song.

Serge



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1836436
02/01/12 12:18 PM
02/01/12 12:18 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
B
bfb Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
bfb  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
good input Serge. haven't used Band-in-Box in a long time..


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1836459
02/01/12 12:54 PM
02/01/12 12:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 457
Victoria BC
G
Glenn NK Offline
Full Member
Glenn NK  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 457
Victoria BC
Originally Posted by bfb
Originally Posted by Glenn NK
My take on this is that if each key/note of a piano only produced the fundamental (no overtones at all), it could be possible. But that is not the case.

Even the simplest of cases (hypothetical of course) where each note had only the fundamental and the first overtone (an octave higher), and the pianist struck only two keys an octave apart (dampers on the strings to prevent SR), how could software tell if one or two or three keys were struck?


Glenn


seems like you could program the recognition software to only indicate notes or signals at a certain volume or dynamic level? it would seem the overtones would have a different dynamic signature than the struck note? not that i have a clue...


A small problem arises: what if I play middle C very quietly and high C loudly? The dynamics solution to distinguish the two notes then won't work.

As a piano player I very often do play notes at different dynamic levels (velocities in the midi terminology) for effect and nuance.

On a clarinet, a number of notes can be played with different fingerings (upper and lower registers). The result is notes with the same/similar pitch but different timbres. How does software get the right one?

In general instruments that can play more than one note at a time and in which there is "cross-talk" (sympathetic resonance) between notes will be extremely difficult to decode. Single note instruments (horns, etc) that can't hold more than one note at a time may be possible.

But personally I'm not betting on the complex instruments ever being decoded.

An orchestra? I don't even dream of that one.

Glenn

EDIT:

When is the last time you heard a good saxophonist that didn't use pitch bends - now what does the software do? Guitars use them frequently and they employ SR.

I've created pitch bends in my MIDI editor - is there an easy way to notate this on a score?

There are so many complexities that the practicality of the undertaking is questionable.

Last edited by Glenn NK; 02/01/12 04:28 PM.
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: erichlof] #1836535
02/01/12 03:12 PM
02/01/12 03:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32
Canada, NS
G
gnembon Offline
Full Member
gnembon  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32
Canada, NS
Originally Posted by erichlof
I'm not saying it is impossible - everything that can be computed in this universe will ultimately be computed by the time we humans are done with our quest for knowledge/tech. But I wouldn't know how to even start this kind of software project. It maybe a decade before we make significant strides.

Yes and No. I am actually doing my research in music analysis as a computer scientist. Technically speaking there is a simple algorithm i.e. list all possible combinations, evaluate how the spectrum (cepstrum, whatever) would look like for each configuration and pick the most probable one, but there is a catch - such a system would work in exponential time and the problem is NP-complete which means that no machine would be ever able to scale it well.

Last edited by gnembon; 02/01/12 03:13 PM.
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1854872
03/02/12 12:43 PM
03/02/12 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
G
glovewildplaces Offline
Junior Member
glovewildplaces  Offline
Junior Member
G

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
Great discussions guys.
Bruce B,
(Disclaimer I'm just a very old very part-time hobbyist piano thumber for a couple of years, but longtime computer geek.)
Anyway, I tried all the all of em (Celemony Melodyne, IntelliScore Ensemble, Widisoft, AudioScore) disclaimer#2 just my results & i am no pro but... None were very useful. (even if they got a fair portion of the notes in midi they were not timed correctly/quantized.)

But as part of my ear training (for me, there was no substitute for closing eyes & opening ears) process I use dirt cheap, Seventh String Transcribe all the time. (used to use Audicity...weak by compare) It just plain works at showing you the various runs & chords etc. (most of the time & after a little practice I got good enough to know when it is right or wrong.) Yea, I slow it down allot sometimes, not as much as I used to ! smile
I can now pretty much tell what key a piece is in & hack/play very short time within a minute or 2 just by listening, no softare.
Here is 30 day trial.
http://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/download.html
Here's a playlist put together of Mark H's great tutorial on Transcribe & his lightning fast input into Sibelius.(remember though that is for sax so he doesn't have to worry about piano chords)
Btw, No credit for me on tutorial at all. He did all of it (I just organized it into a easy list of them.)
But notice he DOES NOT use the spectrum tool (because he has such a good ear ). I use spectrum tool all the time for the various chords mostly.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL951DF7D2DF08491A&feature=g-playlist

Oh yea, if you download the piano version of Random Hearts ("Now Playing: Movie Themes - Solo Piano") it is fairly easy to see what is happening with the complex jazz chords he does(key of Am) by using Transcribe. (I ain't saying i get all the notes perfect each time....at all)

good luck, it sure is allot of fun.
imho, yrmv. & sorry about small font.

Edit Disclaimer#3: 7th String Transcribe is NOT auto transcribe software. It provides really good fidelity when slowing down music (very important for picking out triads, etc) & pretty good guesses of which notes are played via waveform spectrum analysis. Regardless, it is just a visual associating learning tool but once your ear tuning get's there well....& imho all it takes is no more practice than learning to read music.

Last edited by glovewildplaces; 03/06/12 10:04 AM.
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1854958
03/02/12 03:35 PM
03/02/12 03:35 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
B
bfb Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
bfb  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
Atlanta GA USA
thanks Glovewildplaces- i will look at Transcribe.

PS: for an "old guy" you sure are comfortable with SMALL FONT!!! I guess your eyes are still as good as your ears!



Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Re: Any advances-- converting mp3 or wav file to midi files? [Re: bfb] #1855213
03/02/12 09:38 PM
03/02/12 09:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
G
glovewildplaces Offline
Junior Member
glovewildplaces  Offline
Junior Member
G

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
Thanks ! Sorry, about that font I just try & make fit cause i'm so long winded.;)

Last edited by glovewildplaces; 03/06/12 09:58 AM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
DH Baldwin (Samick) Action Stack/Key
by TimM_980. 06/25/19 01:11 AM
In Praise Of The Original Yamaha AG N3
by cphollis. 06/25/19 12:42 AM
Hammer wear on Kawai console circa 1968
by extravagrant. 06/24/19 11:46 PM
Audio Book: How to Listen to and Understand Great Music
by TX-Bluebonnet. 06/24/19 11:06 PM
Prices Paid updated ...
by MacMacMac. 06/24/19 11:03 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,697
Posts2,841,783
Members93,708
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1