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Field was 20 years older than Chopin ... and although being first with the nocturne format ... was merely a salesman in the London warehouse of Musio Clementi ... impressing customers with finger dexterity ... rippling across the piano keys in chromatic and scalar flourishes.
Field, was actually quite a phenomenal, famous and sought after pianist. He wasn't just a salesman for Clementi...he was his star student. He is, of course, best known for the nocturne, but his influence on a generation of composers was strong. Read the preface to the Liszt edition of the Field nocturnes written by the editor himself and tell me if you think Liszt thought of Field as a mere salesman.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
I would not recommend the nocturnes by John Field and I a not surprised that Liszt thought Field was good or whatever, as I find both there music more banal and shallow than pretty much all other classical composers.. Anyway, I think OP should try on some Schubert if he likes Chopin. To like Chopin often means that one appreciate great melodies and harmonies, and the trues master of melodies and harmonies is Franz Schubert.
"Field, was actually quite a phenomenal, famous and sought after pianist."
Bosh! stores ... but glad you added the conditional "quite".
The Russians seemed to like his twiddily playing and he ended up in St. Peterburg.
Are you saying you don't agree?
He didn't just "end up" in St. Petersburg. Clementi, took Field, to Paris, Vienna, and St. Petersburg, when Field was about 20 and it was his choice to stay when Clementi left. Though clearly not Russian, he was one of the founders of what we call the "Russian school".
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
We all know the story stores ... if you agree that Field was one of the founders of the Russian school ... and that he stayed on at St. Petersburg (a beautiful city) ... it might just follow that he kicked the bucket there when his liver packed in (all the booze).
PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.
PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.
Every source I've found states that Field was born in 1782 and was living in St. Petersburg by mid-1803.
While I've heard a few of his compositions over the years - and even own a volume of his Nocturnes - I always thought Field lived and worked primarily in the British Isles throughout his entire lifetime....probably because he is referred to as an "Irish" composer. Oh well......now I know better.
PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.
Every source I've found states that Field was born in 1782 and was living in St. Petersburg by mid-1803.
While I've heard a few of his compositions over the years - and even own a volume of his Nocturnes - I always thought Field lived and worked primarily in the British Isles throughout his entire lifetime....probably because he is referred to as an "Irish" composer. Oh well......now I know better.
You're exactly right, carey. He was in St. Pete at the onset of winter 1802, which would make him...hmmm 20. Maybe math isn't btb's strong point. =p
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
If you're going to work on any Bach I find it helps to think of it as a technical study - its there to excercise your fingers and brain - without troubling the soul. Its dull and uninspiring - but beats playing scales....
I have been known to use the odd P&F as warm up excercises before playing *real* music!
:-p
Last edited by DadAgain; 02/29/1209:56 PM.
Parent.... Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur).... Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago) Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago) Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.
This is on my list at present... might turn some folks moist with joy, but to me it might as well be a page of elegant algeraic manipulation - perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.
Parent.... Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur).... Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago) Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago) Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.
This is on my list at present... might turn some folks moist with joy, but to me it might as well be a page of elegant algeraic manipulation - perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.
- perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.
I have observed that many people who don't warm to Bach have a view that the only way for music to have "heart" is for it to have been written in the 19th century.
i was so in love with Chopin.. the etudes, waltzes, nocturnes and preludes. I had to take a 10 year break, because his music was so very soulful.. I'd just cry constantly while practicing.. it just got to be too much.. (not so much for the etudes) but the nocturnes and preludes.. omgosh
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
...I have observed that many people who don't warm to Bach have a view that the only way for music to have "heart" is for it to have been written in the 19th century.
Plenty of 20th and 21st century music seems to do it for me - but yes, I'll take your point - anything pre about 1780 struggles to 'communicate' in my book!
Parent.... Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur).... Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago) Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago) Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)
If you're going to work on any Bach I find it helps to think of it as a technical study - its there to excercise your fingers and brain - without troubling the soul. Its dull and uninspiring - but beats playing scales....
I have been known to use the odd P&F as warm up excercises before playing *real* music!
:-p
Wow. I am SOOOOOOOOOO holding my tongue on this one!!!! It's not easy to do either! You're absolutely at the very pinnacle of my not to be taken seriously list, DA.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
anything pre about 1780 struggles to 'communicate' in my book!
It's not the music (or its composer) that struggles to communicate...the problem lies with you.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
carey So many thanks for the Yudina link. What a splendid way to start the day / end the night. Debating whether I should get my lazy self to the piano or comfort my heart with more of Yudina's Bach. dad again, you may very well land up in Purgatory for that blasphemous tirade. Just sayin.
dad again, you may very well land up in Purgatory for that blasphemous tirade. Just sayin.
He already is in some horrible place, it seems to me.
I really don't understand why overt "emotion" is the sole gauge of musical value for some people. Don't they have any sense of music having value simply for being beautiful or intriguing? Or for conveying the joy and excitement of sheer creativity?
There are lots of analogies with natural phenomena, I think, which have no intrinsic "emotion" at all, but can nonetheless be deeply satisfying to contemplate for us humans. An obvious example is how many of us can be gobsmacked by a spectacular sunset, even though there is no emotional content in it at all. I think music can operate on us in a similar way.
