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Schimmel Question #1853667
02/29/12 11:37 AM
02/29/12 11:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,357
Nashville, TN
P
Pianolance Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,357
Nashville, TN
What are the main differences between the Schimmel Konzert and Classic lines. I am specifically looking for concrete differences and not general things like "the Konzert is a big step up from the Classic" or "Konzert sounds better" but more specifics of how there construction, scale, action, etc. are different. Thanks.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Pianolance] #1853688
02/29/12 12:03 PM
02/29/12 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
J
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member
jivemutha  Offline
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J

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
You're asking the right questions. The problem is getting the right answer.

Schimmel, like most other manufacturers, for reasons I don't understand, seems to go out of their way to obscure the differences between different lines of pianos. (Yamaha is particularly adept at hiding what separates one line from another.) Larry Fine provides a little information (see http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/181.html) but doesn't get into a sufficiently specific comparison of the two lines to likely satisfy potential customers.

If, in the end, you cannot get straight answers, here's a suggestion: even the "lower" Classic Schimmel line is rated higher than a lot of really good pianos, so it's not like either line is a bad choice. Under those circumstances, arguably the big issues are how they sound to you, what they cost, and what you think the difference in sound is worth to you.

The cost you can get from the dealer. (You can get a RELATIVE sense of differing costs from http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/233.html). How much better the K series sounds to you you can get by playing them.

These issues, cost differences and how they sound to YOU, are ultimately more important here than technical differences in features. As piano designer Del Fandrich has said on PianoWorld, it can be best to ignore the "features." While this simplistic way of going about making a decision might seem inappropriate for piano brands unlike Schimmel for which one line is vastly different in quality from another (e.g., Yamaha) , even there I think you'd find your ear would provide you with the most important information even without the specifics.

If, in contrast, someone can really answer your question with specifics, better still. Good luck.

P.S. I recently got to play a K169 and just loved it!!!! (Unfortunately I did not get to play any C series Schimmels.

Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Pianolance] #1853712
02/29/12 12:30 PM
02/29/12 12:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,357
Nashville, TN
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Pianolance Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,357
Nashville, TN
My interest in the topic stems from playing an older Schimmel 6'10" at my former church for several years. It was a wonderful piano manufactured in the early 90's, and I have nothing bad to say about it. My feeling was that it performed at a very high level, and if the Konzert series is even better that would be an impressive piano for sure. But I'm interested from the standpoint of, does it have a similar "Schimmel Piano Family" sound? Or does it have a completely different voice, and if so, what went into the redesign that affected the tone quality? I agree with jivemutha in that the Classic should be considered a fully professional, high level, piano that plays and sounds equal or better than other pianos that are considered professional quality pianos, or a notch higher than what would be considered home quality. Also, what are the differences in the action between the two pianos, or are the actions largely the same?


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Pianolance] #1853732
02/29/12 12:55 PM
02/29/12 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,635
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,635
Atlanta, GA
I'll discuss the grands. Starting with the basics, they are a completely different concept for design. Konzert follows their Trilogy concept. There is a great overhead photo that illustrates this, but I cannot locate a decent sized image online. This means that the pianos (K169, K189, K213) share the same action and shape within each trilogy, varying in length and bridge position. Schimmel's design programs used these as fixed parameters and then focused on optimizing other variables. This leads to more efficient manufacturing while using high quality components.

Visually, you will notice thicker rims, a flared design as part of a more extreme example of wide-tail design. The smaller model K169 is visually boxy but gets less so as the pianos get longer.

The Konzert also has different bridge design (unified in 2011), not only in scale, but also in profile. The sides are scalloped as part of a different mass-stiffness ratio. The soundboard's contoured shape was also computer engineered in the Konzert redesign. The front duplex scaling is vastly different on the new Konzert.

The actions are also different geometry, though both are Renner. The Konzert is designed to have a firmer, more substantial feel but medium in weight. The Classic is certainly on the light side of average. Schimmel makes their own keysets, but the Konzert keytops are also different. The factory prep of the Konzert is substantially better.

Cosmetic differences are also substantial. Konzert has more decorative plate additions, figured bubinga veneer on the inner rim, different leg design with brass ferrules and better casters. The music desk is more substantial, even the finish itself seems thicker and smoother. Most of the cabinet parts for the Classic are made in the Vogel factory while the Konzert parts are made in Schimmel's Braunschweig factory. The fit of the German case parts is better.

My favorite models from Schimmel are the K230 and then the K213 as I think they best represent where Schimmel excels. I especially liked the NWS designs.

With the uprights, they many models and overlapping sizes, the differences are less clear cut, but the Konzert will have better fit & finish, usually duplex scaling, and better factory prep.

I've similar posts before about Schimmel if you search this forum.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
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Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Pianolance] #1853741
02/29/12 01:04 PM
02/29/12 01:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,635
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,635
Atlanta, GA
If you like the original 208, you would probably love the K213. They definitely carry the Schimmel sound, however I do hear a different shade. The Konzert is capable of very strong, even strident tones but doesn't have to be. I find it more precise and less ... sweet?

Comparing the older 208 action vs the newer 208 or K213, I think you might find the older 208 to be somewhat closer to the K213 than the new 208 in weight. However, the new K213 is more even and responsive when challenged.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Schimmel Question [Re: PianoWorksATL] #1853896
02/29/12 07:40 PM
02/29/12 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
USA
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012
Strings & Wood  Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
USA
Quote
My favorite models from Schimmel are the K230 and then the K213 as I think they best represent where Schimmel excels. I especially liked the NWS designs.


I totally agree. The K230 is an exceptional piano, but I still prefer the K213NWS.








Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Pianolance] #1853909
02/29/12 08:07 PM
02/29/12 08:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
J
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member
jivemutha  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
Sam Bennet's comments above provide more details than I thought we'd be able to actually get from anyone--a positive surprise! Thank you, Mr. Bennet.

And yet, even here, "different bridge design" and "different geometry" etc., etc., etc.--how can that actually facilitate your decision?

Again, consider, as Pianolance says above, that 'even' the Classic series is a terrific piano. Let's accept that the Konzert is even better. The cost difference is substantial.

Isn't the answer now to simply play 'em each for a long enough time to frustrate the dealer, and LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN with your ear--no one else's. Assuming you like the sound of the K series better (rather than just getting impressed with the up-scale changes that have been made), look in your wallet, and then decide whether the difference in cost is worth it to YOU. If it isn't, then getting a K series is a bad deal. If it is, then getting a K series is a good deal.

It's unclear to me that you grok that at this point your ear is now the biggest part of the answer to your question--not the piano. (I wouldn't say this if you were choosing between a good piano and a not-so-good piano.)

Good luck. Let us know what you get!

Re: Schimmel Question [Re: jivemutha] #1853910
02/29/12 08:14 PM
02/29/12 08:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,952
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,952
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted by jivemutha

The cost you can get from the dealer. (You can get a RELATIVE sense of differing costs from http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/233.html). How much better the K series sounds to you you can get by playing them.


You need to read the introduction to the pricing section in order to get value from the priced quoted for any model. Please read http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/195.html first.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Schimmel Question [Re: Steve Cohen] #1853919
02/29/12 08:37 PM
02/29/12 08:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
J
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member
jivemutha  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
You need to read the introduction to the pricing section in order to get value from the priced quoted for any model. Please read http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/195.html first.


Thanks for adding this!


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