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Re: NOOOOO! [Re: lilylady] #1847079
02/18/12 12:02 AM
02/18/12 12:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 203
Canada
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tdow Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted by lilylady
"When I assign them a piece"

What is this? Are you teaching the same piece to two sisters at the same time?

I agree with the above suggestion that it is time to teach them separately AND with no mom present.

And I'll add - two separate courses. They should not be playing the same pieces at the same time.

I'll bet that it will solve the problem. Make it a big deal, like it is time now for your special lessons all by yourself!


I agree 100%. I think you're dealing with an extreme case of someone who is wanting individual attention. They're certainly getting your attention...but I think that having one-on-one time with you is what's needed. No mom in the room, no sister. It's less rewarding to cause a scene for just one person and I bet they won't even try.


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Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Barb860] #1847099
02/18/12 12:59 AM
02/18/12 12:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
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UK
Nikolas Offline
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Originally Posted by Barb860
Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Is this a case where mom/dad in the room might do wonders for the behavior?


Mom sits in on all lessons......sigh.....
Heh... I think that this might be the problem. The kids are all too used in treating the mom badly and you get caught up in this.

throw the mom out and this should solve itself.

And if I may note that I'm currently ALSO teaching at home, where my older son (aged 8) is very persistent in staying with me on the lessons: I've never let him. He can still hear what we're doing, but under no circumstances he's allowed to interfere! He simply doesn't have this right!

Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Luke in ChiTown] #1847110
02/18/12 01:37 AM
02/18/12 01:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,331
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by Luke in ChiTown
While it is almost always better to have the parent sitting in on the lesson, I agree that should do a trial with just one child at a time and no parent.

I strongly disagree that it is almost always better to have the parent sitting in on the lesson unless the children are very young and I am teaching the parent how to teach the child. And I do this with children under seven, until they reach a point at which the parent can no longer follow what we are doing. smile


Piano Teacher
Re: NOOOOO! [Re: AZNpiano] #1847111
02/18/12 01:37 AM
02/18/12 01:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,331
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Some parents have absolutely no control over their kids. I knew that when I was 8. Teaching in public schools has confirmed that fact many times over.

Sometimes the teacher just has to step up and be the parent, at least during the lesson.

ABSOLUTELY true.


Piano Teacher
Re: NOOOOO! [Re: btb] #1847113
02/18/12 01:42 AM
02/18/12 01:42 AM
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South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by btb
NOOOOO!!! This issue is frequently raised ... all children appear to happily advance in progress over the opening lessons ...
however, it’s sight-reading (the inability to master) which unfortunately gums up the works .

As suggested by some, a menu of keyboard music which the pupil LIKES can help bridge the negative reactions in under-tens.

1) You can give people music "they like", but if they can't play that music, they will be just as frustrated, maybe more so.
2) Yes, inability to sight-read gums up the works, for all the people who really want to read written music. But in my opinion more than 50 percent of the time reading-weaknesses are directly caused by poor teaching. Thus the horror stories we hear again and again about transfer students.


Piano Teacher
Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Barb860] #1847324
02/18/12 02:03 PM
02/18/12 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 131
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I agree that it's time for Mom to find something else to do during lessons. I have a young student with some type of anxiety disorder, according to Mom. Mom was very uneasy about letting him take lessons, so she sat in on the first few. At the first lesson, he started crying and began to pull his hair out. (Literally -- he has a bald spot.) In short, a total meltdown. Mom rushed over to the piano, hugged him, and fussed for a few minutes. This was a pretty typical lesson. Then came the day Mom couldn't make it. He started up with the routine, and I said (kindly), "Let me know when you're done and we'll start back up." I picked up a book and pretended to read. After about two minutes, complete with many sidelong glances at me, he said, "OK, I'm done now," and we continued on. Next week when Mom was there, it all started up again. When I suggested to Mom that he might do better one-on-one, she was aghast but agreed. I recorded a lesson, and when she watched the video she couldn't believe it. However, she doesn't make the connection that her response aggravates the situation. Recently he played in a community recital and played beautifully, with no problems at all. Afterwards, he came up to me and said, "I told Mom to sit in the back."


Piano teacher since 1995
Re: NOOOOO! [Re: pianolady14] #1847336
02/18/12 02:26 PM
02/18/12 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,331
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by pianolady14
I agree that it's time for Mom to find something else to do during lessons. I have a young student with some type of anxiety disorder, according to Mom. Mom was very uneasy about letting him take lessons, so she sat in on the first few. At the first lesson, he started crying and began to pull his hair out. (Literally -- he has a bald spot.) In short, a total meltdown. Mom rushed over to the piano, hugged him, and fussed for a few minutes. This was a pretty typical lesson. Then came the day Mom couldn't make it. He started up with the routine, and I said (kindly), "Let me know when you're done and we'll start back up." I picked up a book and pretended to read. After about two minutes, complete with many sidelong glances at me, he said, "OK, I'm done now," and we continued on. Next week when Mom was there, it all started up again. When I suggested to Mom that he might do better one-on-one, she was aghast but agreed. I recorded a lesson, and when she watched the video she couldn't believe it. However, she doesn't make the connection that her response aggravates the situation. Recently he played in a community recital and played beautifully, with no problems at all. Afterwards, he came up to me and said, "I told Mom to sit in the back."

Another example of where *WE* have to step in and be parents.

It happens a lot. frown


Piano Teacher
Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Minniemay] #1847419
02/18/12 04:52 PM
02/18/12 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 807
Florida
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Originally Posted by Minniemay
When they are in your studio, they are on your turf, therefore you are the authority figure that sets the rules. You cannot rely on the parent because, at that point, you would be pitting two authority figures against each other. One person in charge at any given time and during the lesson, you're it.


As a parent, I agree. During a lesson (of any kind), the lesson-giver is "the boss" .
During a sporting event, the coach is "the boss".
At school, the teacher is "the boss".
At home, * I * am the boss. (well, hubby has input... ha )

Do not be afraid, take charge!


I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles



Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Gary D.] #1847701
02/19/12 08:10 AM
02/19/12 08:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Some parents have absolutely no control over their kids. I knew that when I was 8. Teaching in public schools has confirmed that fact many times over.

Sometimes the teacher just has to step up and be the parent, at least during the lesson.

ABSOLUTELY true.


Nope. Sorry, but I'm not being paid to be anyone's parent. I'd have to charge far more than I do now were that the case. Parents are welcome to sit in on lessons, if they like (though I don't have any that do these days), but I have no problem kicking the parent out, if they're creating noise of any kind. If your child is unruly and doesn't respond to me then off you go until you're able to behave appropriately.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: NOOOOO! [Re: Barb860] #1847902
02/19/12 03:48 PM
02/19/12 03:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,524
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Glad you putting your foot down worked, Barb. I highly recommend that whenever a teacher is trying to establish rules and set a pattern of behavior (or change one), that they come out at the beginning of the lesson before any behavior they establish their routine and tell them what the rules are and what the consequences will be should those rules be broken. Always be sure the consequences match the severity of the infraction, and maybe with young ones you can "remind" them of the rules before immediately enforcing them so that they are learning to monitor their own behavior.

As far as comments about this being the "parent" or "babysitter", it is nothing of the sort. It's called being the adult. You are not responsible for the child's behavior, but if you want to continue to teach them and make money and not have a dreading feeling every time they walk in the door, you can either do something about it or not. If not, you should refer them to someone else and lose that student. It's a choice, but by no means does it make one a babysitter to do so.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: NOOOOO! [Re: stores] #1847924
02/19/12 04:32 PM
02/19/12 04:32 PM
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Posts: 6,331
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by stores

Nope. Sorry, but I'm not being paid to be anyone's parent. I'd have to charge far more than I do now were that the case. Parents are welcome to sit in on lessons, if they like (though I don't have any that do these days), but I have no problem kicking the parent out, if they're creating noise of any kind. If your child is unruly and doesn't respond to me then off you go until you're able to behave appropriately.

If you have to kick a parent out, you will be undoing the results of poor parenting in the lesson. You call what you are going in such a situation anything you want, but there is retraining involved in many such situations.

Regardless, I also have no trouble kicking an interfering or enabling parent out, and if I continue to get resistance from such a parent, I end the lessons. But I do find this painful when I like the child and the child, when left alone with me, is doing well.



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