Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
There are obvious problems with this performance in terms of dynamics, pedalling, how long he holds down the keys. It's not authentic. Also, people who own a computer with a sampled piano and know how to play, certainly would own a piano keyboard to trigger it. It's more plausible that it was recorded with a keyboard and he is miming to a recorded sequence. Nice gimmick though.
In the YouTube description he says he used the following software:
Not speculating as to whether or not he is actually playing it this way, but some objections are easy to overcome. For Nikolas, the piece he is playing doesn't use 88 keys; without the shift key (or alt, ctrl) you can have two octaves. For ando, since he must be using a synthesized or sampled piano, he can set the release automatically and shorten the length of decay to keep it from overlapping too much. There are a few spots where chords overlap and are dissonant. The only problem left is the melody seems to be louder than the accompaniment but you can set a filter to brighten the sound around the range of the melody.
There are obvious problems with this performance in terms of dynamics, pedalling, how long he holds down the keys. It's not totally authentic. Also, people who own a computer with a sampled piano and know how to play, certainly would own a piano keyboard to trigger it. It's more plausible that it was recorded with a keyboard and he is miming to a recorded sequence. It's obvious that he can play it on the computer because he is hitting the same notes consistently. I'm sure you could play the piece, but with less control over the sound. Try playing a decent trill on a computer keyboard, it's pretty much impossible. Nice gimmick though. Another possibility is that it was recorded like this, but was MIDI edited later to add pedaling and fix things like the trills and dynamics. That would be perfectly doable.
I don't think he is miming (and I find it quite easy to play a trill on a computer keyboard.) It also sounds to me as if the notes are just ringing out. I'll take door B - editing after the fact. Also, most (all modern) sound cards have a set of General Midi sounds built in, which is why you can play a midi file from the web and hear it. If the performance was fake, I'd have to wonder why. It's more interesting than it is impressive.
I have studied this to extremely hard, I do accept there is a visual disparity at the given time, BUT, he is not using what we would call a half decent camera, He never claimed that the video was taken in one "shoot" It may well have been patched, and given the primitiveness of the camera used, it would seem natural that it didnt have a very large memory card especially if using its video function.
To my eyes, it looks like it was taken on a very old digital STILS camera that had very very basic video capacity like say an early vivitar... the sort of thing most folk were lucky enough to throw away 20 years ago.
He has agreed to do it again, so that he can send me the midi file.. he doesnt need to do that, but has offered. the midi file wil show up any alleged "velocity changes" and will also show whether the midi notes themselves have been doctored to fall exactly on time, every time, which I seriously doubt.
On my own laptop, In abelton, using Pianotech as a vst for example, If I want to sound notes in different octaves, I hit the X button to go up and octave, and again to go up another octave , and the Z button to go down an octave and again to go down another octave. This allows to get to the top and bottom octaves in an 88 key range.
I have only ever used my laptop keyboard to sound midi notes and chords when I am working away from my "real" keyboard and dont want to hook the laptop up.
He also mentions that using galaxy Vienna, some notes have different velocities as an inherent flaw of the program, which I believe I have heard folk mention before?
Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley
Update, Rupak was using "Camtastia" which records what you are doing online with a WAV file as the sound format. It also allows you to use the webcam function to record visuals.
Quite clearly, his webcam is awfull, and to record the keypad will mean terrible foreshortening, its a wonder we can see anything at all, not ideal conditions for forensic testing of the visuals by a clear margin.
Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley
ando: It's not just the alphabet keys. You can very well use pretty much all the keys available (;,.123456890-=`][ and so on, along with the numberic keypad, etc)...
The sound is just a sampled piano, it can happen without a keyboard at all.
And I've had plenty of sound libraries before actually getting a midi keyboard (digital piano that is), so it's perfectly normal.
ando: It's not just the alphabet keys. You can very well use pretty much all the keys available (;,.123456890-=`][ and so on, along with the numberic keypad, etc)...
I never said anything about the keys being used. I actually said that he could certainly play the piece on the computer keypad. Not sure why you are directing this at me.
Quote
The sound is just a sampled piano, it can happen without a keyboard at all.
And I've had plenty of sound libraries before actually getting a midi keyboard (digital piano that is), so it's perfectly normal.
I never talked about the sound production either. I'm perfectly aware of sampled pianos, MIDI editing, VSTs etc. Again, not sure why you are telling me this. My comments were related to aspects of the performance that do not tally with the video image. Specifically pedalling and dynamics. As I said, it could be played as we see it on the video, but then edited to add what was missing.
Rupak was kind enough to send me a midi file he made, and I have done a review of the evidence... here are my findings...
Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley
I was not aware of this post. I just came to know about it today from Rostosky. I wanna thank you all for your criticisms. But now I see that even Rostosky's hard effort to prove this to be real is also being joked. This is too painful to me. Though most of the confusions and doubts are resolved by Rostosky, polyphasicpianist, Nikolas, Damon (and their speculations are exactly correct and I'll also explain it that way) still for those who are not still convinced and do need and ready to accept some explanations, I've some. But let me first request you to at least have a look at VMPK, Kontakt and Galaxy II Vienna Concert Grand soft piano.
For pedaling and dynamics (ando): VMPK has a sustain pedal controller, but basically it has only 2 effects: pedal down (when it's maximum) and pedal up (when it's minimum or below certain value). So, it's next to impossible to control pedal and I never did it. I fixed it to MAXIMUM VALUE ALWAYS. So, all notes are sustained throughout the playing. But the explanation of why certain notes are sustained more than others can explain the same issue for velocity or volume as well. As I explained it quite a few times; because Galaxy II Vienna's a sampled piano, all notes, even if they are played with a fixed velocity and pedal down, don't produce same loudness or sustain for same time-span. THIS IS THE INHERENT FEATURE OF SAMPLED PIANO. And as Damon also correctly explained, in the EQ settings of Galaxy Vienna I decreased the resonance time a bit as I've to play with pedal down always. This may not be apparent when you play sampled piano with a DP or a midi controller/sequencer but is quite apparent if you try with a computer keyboard as a midi controller. I request you to try this.
Next issue is video. I recorded the video with a cheap Frontech webcam. The ambient light was also low. I'm sorry for this but please note that I'd no other options. I used camtasia to record the system audio and video from webcam. As correctly anticipated by polyphasicpianist, the video framerate as low as less than 15-20 fps, and I couldn't make it larger. So, the trill portion can't be as clear as a regular HD video looks. I have seen so many people typing much much faster than the trill, even hard core gamers used to press buttons like storm Try to catch their finger movements with a slow framrate webcam and see what happens.
Another minor issue which can be understood quite easily if one really wants to is implementing 88 keys on computer. This is quite correctly explained by Damon: this song absolutely doesn't need 88 keys. Even I didn't have to shift the octave up or down. That's a major reason I choose this song to play. Again, best way to be convinced is to try for yourself.
These are some explanations which probably I couldn't make lucid because of my poor english. But I've an ultimate suggestion to all of you. If someone still needs proofs I request him to first download VMPK (it's free) and then send a PM to me so that I can send him the keymap settings (which qwerty key is mapped to which piano keys) that I made for this song as well as the exact notes (the qwerty key sequence to play this song). I believe anyone can try this with a computer and can convince himself more than any explanation or argument can.
Thank you, Rostosky for taking the time to make a thorough and convincing analysis in support of Mr. Bhattacharya’s performance.
What he has done is the musical equivalent of producing a Renoir with nothing but a paint roller, and I applaud his diligence, his commitment to making music, his creativity in overcoming the limitations of his equipment, AND for his performance. I hope we’ll be hearing more from him (and on a real keyboard) in the very near future.
Regards,
John
Currently working on: Beethoven Sonata no. 32, Op. 111 Chopin Etude Op. 10 no. 2 Debussy La Danse de Puck
Thank you, Rostosky for taking the time to make a thorough and convincing analysis in support of Mr. Bhattacharya’s performance.
Thank you a lot for appreciating Rostosky's hard work for such a mere insignificant work of mine. Surely he had gone through a lot more hardships for making this video than me. I don't know how to meet my debt to him. He deserves lot more appreciations than me.
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.
I tend to agree.
On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.
I tend to agree.
On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.
Did you see Rostosky's video? The velocity of the midi was not altered, meaning the subtle rhythm shifts (which he would of had to learn to mime exceptionally well, if he was faking the whole thing) would of had to have been altered on a note by note basis, thus making this one of the most elaborate and pointless internet hoaxes ever produced.
I'm not buying it as a real performance. How is he doing the pedaling? How can he get any dynamics with a keyboard that is either on or off and can't sense velocity? I think it's a con.
I tend to agree.
On a larger scale, members of our species believe the most incredible things ... and without proof.
Did you see Rostosky's video? The velocity of the midi was not altered, meaning the subtle rhythm shifts (which he would of had to learn to mime exceptionally well, if he was faking the whole thing) would of had to have been altered on a note by note basis, thus making this one of the most elaborate and pointless internet hoaxes ever produced.
We can go back and forth, but it would save a lot of f****** time if there were a video of reasonably high resolution.
I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth. These are intelligent people who believe incredible things without proof. Why should the bar be set so low for musicians?
Asking for a higher quality video is not asking too much.
Anyone remember the Joyce Hatto recordings?
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.
We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.
We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well?
Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
All the time? Really? Amazing! Could you provide a link?
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.
We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well?
Obviously you shouldn't be attacking at all, unprovoked as it is, and why you would add yourself to the list is beyond me.
I personally know people who believe that there is life after death without any proof. I personally know people who believe that virgins can give birth.
We already knew you were attacking religion with your first post. Everybody gets it. You're an atheist. Why not put it in your tagline so you don't have to make a point of bringing it up all the time?
I was attacking those with silly superstitious beliefs but mainly those without critical thinking faculties. Should I also include those who worship flags as well?
Obviously you shouldn't be attacking at all, unprovoked as it is, and why you would add yourself to the list is beyond me.
If the video is genuine, let's see a slightly higher resolution video.
This isn't a matter of faith, Damon, proof in the form of 21st century technology isn't asking too much.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
![[Linked Image]](http://www.animated-gifs.eu/leisure-cinema-superheroes/0003.gif)
Try to catch their finger movements with a slow framrate webcam and see what happens.
