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New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
#1840357 02/07/12 07:37 PM
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Hi

I am having trouble with regulating an almost brand new heintzman grand. The hammer distance was way to close to the strings. I regulated them to the specs I have in the piano action book but the structure seems to be wrong. Did anyone have something similar?

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Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840372 02/07/12 08:47 PM
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What do you mean by "the structure seems to be wrong"? That is not really terminology used in the context of regulation. Are you familiar and comfortable with, as well as experienced in, grand regulation?


JG
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840373 02/07/12 08:47 PM
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Hi William, and welcome to the Piano World Forums!

I'm curious... are you a piano tech, or a do-it-yourselfer?

Hammer blow distance on a grand is usually about 1.75 inches, but varies per manufacturer; not sure what you mean by "structure" issues.

You might get more responses on the Piano Technician's forum, but what ever you do, don’t mention that you are a DIYer (whether you are or not laugh ).

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840378 02/07/12 08:56 PM
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Do you mean geometry?, Are you french Canadian? If so maybe I can help you, maybe.


Jean Poulin

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www.actionpiano.ca
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840434 02/07/12 11:21 PM
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A new Heintzman(chinese) is not going to have the same specs as an old canadian Heintzman found in that book.
Get the specs from the manufacturer. Specs are only a starting point. No piano save for Yamaha or Kawai is going to conform entirely to any printed spec.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
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Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840438 02/07/12 11:27 PM
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Did you check the glider bolts?

Last edited by Dave B; 02/07/12 11:28 PM.

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Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1840828 02/08/12 06:30 PM
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It seems to me that the reason your having a problem is because the action spread is wrong. Find out what is the right distance for that piano action and check yours.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 02/08/12 06:31 PM.

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Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
curry #1840918 02/08/12 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by curry
A new Heintzman(chinese) is not going to have the same specs as an old canadian Heintzman found in that book.
Get the specs from the manufacturer. Specs are only a starting point. No piano save for Yamaha or Kawai is going to conform entirely to any printed spec.


Nice to see someone that knows the difference between a real Heintzman and a copy made in China.

A REAL Heintzman hasn't been made for years - perhaps since the late sixties. The original company went out of business years ago, and an Ontario court judge ruled that the name Heintzman was not to be used in Canada (again, ever).

I found a copy of the court order a few years ago online and read it - it's intent was very clear. Tried to find it again with no luck.

Back to the problem: Curry has provided the best clue.

Glenn

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
Glenn NK #1840993 02/09/12 01:24 AM
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The new China Heintzmans IMO are very good copies. I don't like the "dipped in plastic and hung to dry" finish tho.


1928 Chas. M. Stieff 6'1" Grand. Major rebuild 2011
1920 Mason & Risch Upright (actually my mother's)
1971 Hammond R-100
Roland KR577
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GigaStudio GS3 Ensemble (Bosendorfer & Estonia piano samples)
Roland E20, JV30 (retired)
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Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1841157 02/09/12 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenn NK

Nice to see someone that knows the difference between a real Heintzman and a copy made in China.
A REAL Heintzman hasn't been made for years - perhaps since the late sixties. The original company went out of business years ago, and an Ontario court judge ruled that the name Heintzman was not to be used in Canada (again, ever).
I found a copy of the court order a few years ago online and read it - it's intent was very clear. Tried to find it again with no luck.
Back to the problem: Curry has provided the best clue.
Glenn


She got sick in 1979. There was a concert out here in Whistler at that time, in the home of one of Bill’s children. Dr. Anton Querti, a long time family friend performed, and most of the family was there with the exception of Bill’s brothers and uncle. After that Bill took his wife anywhere in the world she want to see and then lost her.

The youngest daughter told me that selling the company broke Bill’s heart and he never walked into a piano store again. Moved to the New Mexico coastline, and bought a large sailboat.
The company sold in January 1981.Furniture maker Sklar Pepplar purchased the assets, drawings and machinery.

Production was resumed on a small scale for uprights, intending for full production in ’82, but it was not to be. Machinery and drawings sold to China.

The new Heintzman instrument bears no resemblance to the original with the exception that they are both musical instruments. They are completely different animals, so the specs for regulation have to come from the maker as George mentioned.

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
Glenn NK #1841165 02/09/12 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenn NK
[quote=curry]

A REAL Heintzman hasn't been made for years - perhaps since the late sixties. The original company went out of business years ago, and an Ontario court judge ruled that the name Heintzman was not to be used in Canada (again, ever).

I found a copy of the court order a few years ago online and read it - it's intent was very clear. Tried to find it again with no luck.

Back to the problem: Curry has provided the best clue.

Glenn


Actually, the case was against the Music Stand. The judge ruled that the name Heintzman meant a quality made in Canada piano and thus the Music Stand and its owner, Akos Jankura, who bought the Heintzman assets from Sklar Pepplar could not use the name Heintzman on Korean pianos.

Take care,

Steve

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1841172 02/09/12 10:57 AM
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I'm just wondering where the New Mexico coast is.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
Silverwood Pianos #1841175 02/09/12 11:02 AM
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Yeah, that New Mexico coastline is gorgeous.

The only coastline that I have ever seen that can compare is in Saskatchewan. Just south of Regina, I think. Funny...didn't see too many sailboats there.

Sorry - couldn't help myself. smile


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1841319 02/09/12 03:52 PM
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Well,
I am only repeating a story told to me by family members. Bill sold the company, moved to NM and purchased a large sailboat.
If PW members have more information about the original Heintzman family then post it.

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
Silverwood Pianos #1841547 02/09/12 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos

The new Heintzman instrument bears no resemblance to the original with the exception that they are both musical instruments. They are completely different animals, so the specs for regulation have to come from the maker as George mentioned.


Obviously you would know more that me, but I've been told by more than one Heintzman dealer that the China factory uses the original Heintzman tooling and designs. And the ones I've played seemed to feel and sound very similar to the old Heintzman uprights. Maybe it was my imagination, or wishful thinking??


1928 Chas. M. Stieff 6'1" Grand. Major rebuild 2011
1920 Mason & Risch Upright (actually my mother's)
1971 Hammond R-100
Roland KR577
Roland VK-8M Tonewheel organ module
GigaStudio GS3 Ensemble (Bosendorfer & Estonia piano samples)
Roland E20, JV30 (retired)
An old concertina which I can't play
Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1841753 02/10/12 09:28 AM
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I lowered the blow distance 6 months ago and raised the let off, drop and adjusted the backcheck. It seemed to work but when I came back 6 months after, the backcheck was not catching anymore and the hammers were jumping. Like if the let off was now too high. I have been told by another technician that the last technician that did the job messes up actions. The technician regulates hammer height to about an inch from the string. He has seen about 6-7 pianos like this. Some notes have no let-off, is it because the repetition spring is too strong?

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
MrMagic #1841773 02/10/12 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MrMagic
Obviously you would know more that me, but I've been told by more than one Heintzman dealer that the China factory uses the original Heintzman tooling and designs.


All the machinery and tooling eventually ended up in China.
Here is a photo set of the original Heintzman upright with the patented agraffe bridge. The last photo is the grand version of same thing. So open up one of the new Heintzman’s and I doubt you will see this design.

Heintzman & Co Patented Agraffe Bridge

William;

There will not be much in the way of success to patch regulate some other technicians work, especially if the work has been completed incorrectly.

Get the geometry measurements from the manufacturer, or one of the dealers who sell this instrument. Then start from the key frame and work up. It is the only way to solve the problems you are experiencing there.

With intricate work to complete such as regulation of a grand action this cannot be solved over the internet.

Best of luck.


Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
Silverwood Pianos #1841782 02/10/12 10:40 AM
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I've checked my specs this morning and the key height is 1/16 lower may be less and key dip is a bit smaller than 3/8 b less than 1/16. Do you think this small difference could make a difference? The rest seems to be okay. I just think its strange that I don't have much play on the backcheck and the let off worked fine 6 months ago and now the action is different.

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1841788 02/10/12 10:50 AM
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Ok William,

Two things you have stated;

One is that you have been informed about the previous technician who messes up actions as per your statement.

Secondly, you ask if I think a small difference could make a difference. While it doesn’t matter much what I think, I can tell you this;

Something there is making a difference. I can’t see what it is from here. The very best thing to do is take the action rack off the keyboard and start at the beginning again; bed the frame, set the keyboard to the correct height, and go from there. You will find the error eventually. Not enough key dip can make hammer sets bounce.

Re: New Heintzman Grand regulation problem
piano tuner 999 #1842056 02/10/12 05:55 PM
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With all due respect, your questions demonstrate that you do not have the understanding of the intricate inter-dependencies of the various measurements and regulation steps which is required to get a grand action performing to high standards. I strongly suggest bringing in a good technician to look at it and regulate as needed. If your dealer cannot set you up with a good technician, there is a lot of information in the PW archives on how to find one.


JG
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