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#1837429 - 02/02/12 07:25 PM TuneLab for Android  
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That Guy Offline
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TuneLab is now available on Android. If you'd like to check it out you can download it for free: http://www.tunelab-world.com/
The free download is fully functional. The only hitch is that it stops for 2 minutes every 18 notes.

All you TuneLab users - tell me what you like about TuneLab. It seems to be the underdog in the tuning world, but I think it's a really fine program. I like the two displays you can read. The spectrum display gives you the big picture and the phase display gets you up close. Both are adjustable in how they are read.


Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
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#1837474 - 02/02/12 09:18 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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tds Offline
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I switched over from an SAT III, which I feel is a very good stand-alone ETD, to TuneLab on an iPod Touch. I like it very much.

I don't have any experience with any of the other software programs available, so I can't comment on them.


Stay tuned.

Tom Seay, Recovering Piano Technician
Bastrop, Texas
#1837500 - 02/02/12 10:12 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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accordeur Offline
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I have been using tunelab for years now. Started with a cheap HP pda, then went to a Motorola Q with windows mobile, the smartphone version. It was stolen. So since I had both the smartphone and touch screen versions on my computer, I was able to switchback to the touch screen version on a Samsung Omnia that I bought on kijiji. 50$. Cheap. It is not activated as a phone, it stays with my tools.

I use an iPhone as a phone, but would not buy tunelab, for it. I prefer separate machines.

What I think is great about tunelab for android, is that it means that I will always have a cheap way to run the program. On cheap older machines, or newer ones.

Mr. Scott certainly had a good idea when he offered the demo version, years ago, many tuners are as good as they are because of that, and bought the software as I did. I would pay it again. And when the time comes, I will.

I also have never tried other platforms, I have not had the need to.

If this sounds like an endorsement for tunelab, it is.

Last edited by accordeur; 02/02/12 10:20 PM. Reason: clarity

Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#1838427 - 02/04/12 09:20 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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RoyP Offline
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Cincinnati, Ohio
I agree that Tunelab is a nice program. I have it on an HP ipaq 211 that I still carry around with me. I bought Verituner and an ipod touch a few months ago, which has become my main tuning device. It does a great job on pianos that are already close to pitch. But I much prefer Tunelab for pitch raising. If a piano is flat enough, I don't use the built in pitch raise function at all. I find that that the key to getting the piano tuned up to pitch is getting through the first pass quickly. So, I just load a tuning file I think is close to the piano at hand, and fly through it. Tunelab's spectrum display lets you see where every string is pitch wise, so you don't have to mute off as you go. Also, the battery life is much better on the ipaq. I get a few tunings out of the ipod, and it's gone. So, even though I'm using Verituner, I don't want to give up the Tunelab machine. It definitely has it's advantages.

Two things I wonder about using Android. One is battery life. I had an Android phone briefly. It did some neat things, but the battery life was awful. I stopped in several phone stores, and they all said not to expect the battery to last long with Android. I had 30 days, so I took it back and got another Blackberry. I still think Blackberry makes the best phone for business use.

Another thing is the fact that Android is written for a wide variety of devices. My daughter has an Android phone, and she says that some of the apps are glitchy. She's guessing that they may work fine on one phone, but not another. It's a different scenario than iOS, where the apps all play on a device built by the same company.


Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
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#1838661 - 02/04/12 07:13 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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That Guy Offline
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I've been doing the same thing with pitch raises. Even if the first pass takes me 45 minutes the fine tuning usually goes pretty fast too so I figure I'm doing okay. I haven't done a full pitch raise with no mutes yet, but I've done a little so I know it can be done. It sure sounds weird!

Battery life is an issue with Android. There are "battery saver" apps that can help. Shutting off certain things like the GPS will save power. Not using "Live" wallpapers, keeping the screen on a low level... maybe someday batteries will be better and it won't be an issue, but until then ya gotta watch it. Right now I'm using TuneLab on Windows Mobile 6.5, an HTC HD2. Battery life is good. I'm down about 20% after a normal tuning. I don't think I'll be switching to the Android version but I down loaded it for fun. My HTC is "dual booted". The main OS is WM 6.5 but on the memory card is Android 2.3. Android can be run from a memory card but WM can not. It's nice having both systems.

I think you're right about some apps being glitchy on some devices. I think that's why iPod, iPhone is so smooth because they only run on their devices.

I also have another tuning program I use called Tunic OnlyPure. It only runs on the Windows Mobile OS. It uses a lot more power than TuneLab because it's actively listening as you tune. I think that's what Verituner does also isn't it? So maybe it uses a lot of power also?

I do use the pitch raise mode on TuneLab sometimes. One of the tricks is to increase the pitch raise percentage when you get to the treble break. I go with 25% in the middle and then 33% after the break. That usually gets me pretty close.

Last edited by That Guy; 02/04/12 07:14 PM.

Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
#1838759 - 02/05/12 12:28 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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RoyP Offline
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Yes, I believe that the Verituner software uses more juice than Tunelab. That, and the battery on the iPaq is better.

I find the overpull function most useful when raising pitch something like 10-15 cents. It will fall about right with one pass, with maybe some touchup. Much more than that, and you're gonna be doing 2 passes. I would rather do the first pass quickly than accurately. The pitch raise function introduces some latency that slows me down too much on large pitch raises. Sometimes with Tunelab I'll use a single mute to mute off one string of a trichord. Then I'll pull up a pair, move the mute, and pull up the third string. This way I'm moving the mute half as much as normal, but not having to listen to three strings.

I go through spells were I tune all aurally, and spells were I use the machines quite a bit. Tuning pianos is kind of of like mowing a large yard. About the time you get them done, they're out of tune and you have to start over.


Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
#2074108 - 04/30/13 10:17 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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I've downloaded the demo on my Android Galaxy Nexus. I'm mostly using it to verify my aural tunings. One thing that drives me a little nuts is it can't seem to decide on the exact pitch of a note.

For example, I tune A440 with my tuning fork and F2 as the beat test. When I think it's right I fire up tunelab but it bounces around a lot, 439, 439.5, 438, etc.

Does it do this on iPhone/pod/pad too, or is it more solid on the apple platform?

I have other tuning apps that zero in on the note no problem, which makes me wonder what to trust.... (I should probably trust my ears I guess)


Morgan Kelsey
http://www.morgankelsey.com/music/
PTG Associate Member
#2074125 - 04/30/13 10:32 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: nagrom]  
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TunerJeff Offline
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I run TuneLab on my Android-HTC phone. No problems with the display or reading notes.

I do;
Turn off WiFi
Turn off GPS
and if I really need more life...turn off the phone-data connection completely. Who needs a call when in the middle of tuning a piano?

Generally; I'll kill 15 to 20% in an average tuning. I carry an inverter in the car, and use a standard charger between tunings. Have not had a problem with a dead-phone...yet.

But, I do bounce between AccuIII and TuneLab, too.

Pluggin in,
I am,


Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com
#2074172 - 04/30/13 11:38 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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Thanks Jeff,

Which HTC do you have? I'm wondering if it is a processor compatibility issue. I also use gStrings (really, that's what it's called) and it picks up notes dead on.


Morgan Kelsey
http://www.morgankelsey.com/music/
PTG Associate Member
#2074181 - 04/30/13 11:48 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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That Guy Offline
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Morgan - It sounds like you are putting TuneLab into "calibration mode" where it's trying to lock on to a pitch source. I'm guessing that because you list a beat rate and it normally doesn't change when you're tuning. A440 stays there. Of course it lists all the beat rates for each note but they don't change while you're tuning. While you're tuning it lists the pitch in cents on the right side of the note in the gray area.

Make sure you've calibrated your Nexus once to a trusted pitch source and then leave it. Check out the Calibration chapter in the TuneLab manual.

I hope this helps out.


Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
#2074230 - 04/30/13 01:06 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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I agree that TuneLab is great, and I especially like it for the overpull function. Only problem I tend to have is that it seems that I can never quite get the blocks to actually stop. I think Mr. Schott said this can happen with false beats, but I also am afraid it has something to do with the laptop's internal mic and/or the processor.

On the battery issue- I don't think anyone mentioned bluetooth- my understanding is that when you have bluetooth on, it is constantly "looking" for something with which to pair. Thereby, it drains the batter doing something you didn't tell it to do. So unless I need it for something particular, I turn it off as well. Seems to help.

jw


Music teacher and beginning Tuner
#2074234 - 04/30/13 01:16 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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That Guy Offline
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Quote
but I also am afraid it has something to do with the laptop's internal mic and/or the processor.


I tend to agree with you. I've got the pocket pc version and the Android version and I'm able to get phase display to stop with both of them.


Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
#2074302 - 04/30/13 02:27 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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I think Scott is right - jumping around like that sounds like calibration mode.

I use Tunelab on Android (Motorola Xoom) and it is always dead on.


Ben Patterson, RPT
South Jersey Piano Service, LLC
www.sjpianoservice.com
#2074336 - 04/30/13 03:11 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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To answer the earlier question;

My phone is the HTC EVO-V 4G w/3D camera. It had the fastest processor, and best display of phones on the market last year. I/we did not care about the spiffy 3-D pictures...have only taken a couple to prove I can...but the processor speed was the best we could find.

Robert's last update on the TuneLab for Android performs extremely well on the EVO. I can indeed 'stop the blocks' and the display is easy to use. All notes will decay, and fall flat after short duration, and it gets more problematic in the lowest bass and highest treble....but that's a function of the sounds we hear with our ears, yes/no?

One of the most interesting things to me, as an aural addict for 25 years, was to visually see just how much the pitch of strings wanders from 'true' in the displays. Our ear performs an averaging-function, too! But, it was certainly eye-opening to see that twaaaang in my ears on the displays.

An finger in his ear,
wiggling,
I remain,


Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com
#2076474 - 05/03/13 07:09 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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I'm running it on a Galaxy SIII and it runs great


Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate
#2076975 - 05/04/13 01:46 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
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I've been trying it a little with my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, tuning my Baldwin Hamiltons. So far I'm thinking I like it, but I still need to play with it a little more before I decide if I'm ready to sell my SAT III.
(Also I discovered a very easy way to get around the 2-minute delay every 14 notes. wink )


Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.
#2076992 - 05/04/13 03:08 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
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Del Offline
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Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
I've been trying it a little with my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, tuning my Baldwin Hamiltons. So far I'm thinking I like it, but I still need to play with it a little more before I decide if I'm ready to sell my SAT III.
(Also I discovered a very easy way to get around the 2-minute delay every 14 notes. wink )

That's too bad. Robert has worked very hard developing TuneLab and he really deserves to be paid for his efforts.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#2077031 - 05/04/13 06:26 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
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Loren D Offline
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Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
I've been trying it a little with my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, tuning my Baldwin Hamiltons. So far I'm thinking I like it, but I still need to play with it a little more before I decide if I'm ready to sell my SAT III.
(Also I discovered a very easy way to get around the 2-minute delay every 14 notes. wink )


What Del said. Robert has invested a lot of his time and expense in providing a very useful tool and deserves to be compensated for it. It's amazing how little regard for intellectual property there is these days.

Last edited by Loren D; 05/04/13 06:47 AM. Reason: additional thoughts.

DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
#2077084 - 05/04/13 08:51 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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That Guy Offline
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I'm sure "88Key PianoPlayer" will do the right thing and purchase the software once he has decided to to go with it.

By the way 88Key, I'd keep the SATIII for a backup. Ya never know...


Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
#2077646 - 05/05/13 11:45 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
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AndyJ Offline
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Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
I've been trying it a little with my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, tuning my Baldwin Hamiltons. So far I'm thinking I like it, but I still need to play with it a little more before I decide if I'm ready to sell my SAT III.
(Also I discovered a very easy way to get around the 2-minute delay every 14 notes. wink )

Hi 88Key,

Please contact Robert to let him know about the vulnerability you've found. I think the two-minute delay is a great feature; I was able to tune my own piano with the free version over around five hours one weekend and was happy enough with the result to purchase the licensed version. Hopefully he can figure out how to retain the demo version with this weakness corrected.

Thanks,

Andy

#2077651 - 05/05/13 11:54 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: AndyJ]  
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accordeur Offline
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Originally Posted by AndyJ
Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
I've been trying it a little with my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, tuning my Baldwin Hamiltons. So far I'm thinking I like it, but I still need to play with it a little more before I decide if I'm ready to sell my SAT III.
(Also I discovered a very easy way to get around the 2-minute delay every 14 notes. wink )

Hi 88Key,

Please contact Robert to let him know about the vulnerability you've found. I think the two-minute delay is a great feature; I was able to tune my own piano with the free version over around five hours one weekend and was happy enough with the result to purchase the licensed version. Hopefully he can figure out how to retain the demo version with this weakness corrected.

Thanks,

Andy


Yes, do the right thing. Tunelab is already the cheapest professional software, and the only one to offer a free trial. Do the right thing man.


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#2077977 - 05/05/13 10:18 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
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El Cajon, CA
Well I still need to play with it a bit more to be sure I like it, but I'd definitely consider paying for it, but I'd need to sell my SAT III to be able to do that. (Also no, I won't be posting how to circumvent the delay here.)

Was wondering, though - is there a way to get the tunings stored on my SAT off of it, and convert them to a format TuneLab can use? (Not being able to won't be a dealbreaker, though.) Also, while I have both, I wonder what would happen if I used them both simultaneously while tuning one of my Hamiltons? I wonder if that would be a way to compare them?

As for a backup, I need to brush up on my aural skills. Been doing that on my Hamiltons a few times recently, and actually got better tunings once or twice than I had been with the SAT.

Also, are there things the SAT III will do that TuneLab will not do? If so, what are they? (so I can decide if they're important for me). If not, then it'd help me decide to sell it. Also curious - what would be some things the other ones (Verituner, Cybertuner, who'd I miss) can do that TL won't? (Their higher prices & unavailability on Android would keep me away though.)


Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.
#2078005 - 05/05/13 11:28 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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accordeur Offline
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Who cares about your former saved tunings.

Tunelab can figure it out way better.

You MUST understand the basic principles of tuning in order for you to agree with the machine, and to use it properly.

If you don't get that, you really need to brush up on your aural skills.

Tunelab costs about the price of 3 or 4 tunings. If you can't afford that, and hope to rely on it as much as your former machine...

I don't know what to say.





Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#2078141 - 05/06/13 05:45 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
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Loren D Offline
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Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
Well I still need to play with it a bit more to be sure I like it, but I'd definitely consider paying for it, but I'd need to sell my SAT III to be able to do that. (Also no, I won't be posting how to circumvent the delay here.)




I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I still feel funny about this. You're using the software in its full form as though you've already paid for it. I.e., you're getting the full benefit of the software while you "consider" paying for it if/when you sell your SAT.

I really think if you're using it beyond its trial capabilities and intent, then you should just pay for it now. What's to consider if you're making full use of the program?

My .02.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
#2078196 - 05/06/13 08:17 AM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
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Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
...Also no, I won't be posting how to circumvent the delay here....

You will, however, explain the technique to the program's author so he can address the problem, right?

#2078379 - 05/06/13 01:54 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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To close the loop on my sub thread....my android appears to have something running that is devouring resources. A fresh reboot made tunelab work great. I ended up purchasing the iOS version though as I wanted to run it on my iPad's larger display.

Tunelab tech support (Robert himself) was very helpful and responded to an email right away.


Morgan Kelsey
http://www.morgankelsey.com/music/
PTG Associate Member
#2078469 - 05/06/13 04:37 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: That Guy]  
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El Cajon, CA
So far I've only tuned my own piano once with it. I'll probably do it again this week to further evaluate the software. From what I've seen, though, I really like it, although I'm thinking I'm remembering there was something that could be improved. (I'd have to go tune my piano to remember what it was though.) I have not been paid for any TL-aided tunings yet. Assuming I decide to keep it (and I would pay for it), how would I go about selling my SAT III and about how much should I expect to get for it? (I'm NOT putting it on craigslist or fleabay of course!)

There is one method of working around the delay that I don't know if Scott can fix. (edit: actually why couldn't he have it continue sampling in the background, and if it detects a note on the piano sounding and the pitch being adjusted, it resets the timer to the full 2 minutes? I just hope it wouldn't reset if you're just playing a piece while waiting, though - I often do that on my own piano when I feel I need a quick break from tuning. Also I'd hope it'd be smart enough to distinguish the piano being tuned, vs another instrument like a guitar being tuned, or someone speaking or singing.) After tuning the 14 notes and getting the message, aurally tune the unisons for those notes. If you finish before the 2 minutes are up, you could work on something else involved with servicing the piano. (I'm slow enough and picky enough (1 beat every 15 seconds in a > 3 kHz harmonic is a bad unison) that the time is up waaay before I'm done tuning the unisons.) Also I learned the hard way that switching to another app (like Adobe Reader to view the manual, or Firefox) then switching back a few minutes later didn't keep the timer going - it was still in delay mode. Then, even waiting 4 or 5 minutes it was still delayed. I think I ended up rebooting the phone, but it was way longer than a 2-minute delay, all combined. (Good thing it was my own piano at home!)
That's not the method I stumbled on earlier, though.

Last edited by 88Key_PianoPlayer; 05/06/13 04:43 PM.

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#2078494 - 05/06/13 05:41 PM Re: TuneLab for Android [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 225
AndyJ Offline
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AndyJ  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 225
Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
.... There is one method of working around the delay that I don't know if Scott can fix. After tuning the 14 notes and getting the message, aurally tune the unisons for those notes. If you finish before the 2 minutes are up, you could work on something else involved with servicing the piano.

Actually Robert encourages that technique. He just wants the free version to be inconvenient enough for pros that they'll be happy to pay the very reasonable price for the license.

Andy


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