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Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836191
02/01/12 02:53 AM
02/01/12 02:53 AM
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Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Nikolas
Originally Posted by wr
I'm still going to call it spam.
In which case you would have to accept that A LOT of members here are constantly spamming the forums, right? Even if they link to a youtube page, or a myspace page, or box.net, or their own webpage, or any way to share their doings, right?....

While I don't find myself as bothered by that part of it as WR, I can say that there's a difference between this and the things you mentioned: those things aren't generally promoting a product. And I suppose the main person who might object is Frank, because he might feel that if Guy or VSL want to do something like this, they should buy advertising on the site. Obviously a whole different issue than the one we've been discussing but maybe an important one too....


But certainly not important enough to merit creation of yet another thread !!! Or is it.....? grin


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Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836192
02/01/12 02:59 AM
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I don't expect perfect recordings but my expectation is a good, honest recording that demonstrates that time and hard work went into learning the piece. As internet forums cannot replace that of a teacher, I think the Member Recording Section is a good place to get tips on finessing a piece or fine tuning details or for extra opinions on an interpretation or for gaining encouragement or showcasing a performance etc...

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836299
02/01/12 08:00 AM
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This thread and the one which spawned it force me to speak up for the elephant sitting in the room over yonder and ask the obvious question: How do you folks ever find time to play the piano?


Currently working on:
Beethoven Sonata no. 32, Op. 111
Chopin Etude Op. 10 no. 2
Debussy La Danse de Puck
Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Krummholz] #1836315
02/01/12 08:36 AM
02/01/12 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Krummholz
This thread and the one which spawned it force me to speak up for the elephant sitting in the room over yonder and ask the obvious question: How do you folks ever find time to play the piano?


With a nod to "the Music Man", in which Robert Preston told the band of kids "to play the Minuet in G, one must THINK the Minuet in G", I say...

everyone is THINKING about playing piano!

smile

Last edited by piano joy; 02/01/12 08:37 AM.

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-the Beatles



Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836340
02/01/12 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
That's right that you didn't "mention" it -- and I didn't say you did. I'm surprised that's what you got out of what I said and that it's what you're asking. It's more complex than that. I did my best to explain it up there, and I don't think I can do any better. Maybe take another look and see if you connect with what I about it and if you feel it's meaningful. If you don't, then you don't.

Anyway....obviously you don't want to rely just on my input. See what other people think. You're doing well to be reconsidering how you approach this. I think it will only help.


Mark, I understand you are trying to be truthful and helpful, and I appreciate that especially after the original thread, and I mean that sincerely. Perhaps I made a mistake in how approaching this, perhaps I shouldn't of spoken my mind about any comparisons with anything out there, perhaps any mention of my piano skills was wrong to mention, but what's done is done, and it is possible I don't have your skills and insight dealing with this matter, maybe it is a bit sad that I'm not in full sync with what you're saying, I tried, and maybe failed in your eyes. Nothing personal. wink I think I've learned a few things here, especially when presenting this to classical pianists, got to know some people better, friendlier, and I will change my approach from now on, at least for classical pianists, and i don't know what more to say about this. Vienna Imperial Updated, was a step up from the previous version, and you could be sure the next version will again be a step up, the software will keep improving and getting closer and closer to the real deal, perhaps it will never come as close as a real piano, and that's fine. I have done my best, made some mistakes, and what I don't understand (or maybe seem I don't understand), I don't understand. Voilà! wink

Last edited by guybacos; 02/01/12 11:43 AM.
Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Krummholz] #1836360
02/01/12 10:09 AM
02/01/12 10:09 AM
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I check the forums during breakfast (right now). Next, my day consists of:

A voice lesson, a voice rehearsal, and rehearsals for three different recitals I'm accompanying - Feb. 4, 8, and 13. Then, I teach tonight from 4:30 to 7:30. This comes after yesterday, which included 4 hours of teaching, 2 hours of practicing, and 2 hours of rehearsal. Last weekend, I played recitals at the University of Minnesota and University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire. (That's why it took me a couple of days to read and lock that other thread.)

Originally Posted by Krummholz
This thread and the one which spawned it force me to speak up for the elephant sitting in the room over yonder and ask the obvious question: How do you folks ever find time to play the piano?


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Carey] #1836391
02/01/12 10:34 AM
02/01/12 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by guybacos
Ok deal.

So would this text, which I also posted on Pianoworld as a rectification text, be satisfactory as part of the initial post? If anybody cares to reword it, I have no problem with that.

As a matter of fact this is how it also stands now in my YouTube links:


Guy Bacos, Realization of Chopin 24 Études

These Études are NOT played live from end to end. They have been enhanced artistically, through digital process, to bring out more features. There have been different kinds of manipulations, such as tweaking dynamics, speed, accents, notes etc. This is NOT to say they were programmed one note at a time with my mouse. Not by a long shot, I am a good pianist but not that good! wink


Guy - This is just fine - but really all you need to do in the future is briefly explain in your initial post what we'll be hearing and how it was created. Including a link to your website would also be quite helpful - and would give the listener even greater insight into your unique talents. thumb


Thanks! And if anybody has suggestions on what to say, be my guest. Just don't get too philosophical about it. Be direct and I'll be happy. wink

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836395
02/01/12 10:37 AM
02/01/12 10:37 AM
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ok i liked that Guy.. i asked early on, but you never answered.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: apple*] #1836402
02/01/12 10:40 AM
02/01/12 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by apple*
ok i liked that.. i asked early on, but you never answered.


Answered to what?

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836411
02/01/12 10:48 AM
02/01/12 10:48 AM
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Urbandale, Iowa
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Kreisler and John Grant offered great responses since I last visited this thread. In particular John mentioned the concept of art as a product. Recordings are certainly nice and midi recordings can now be made which sound very realistic. I've been spending the last few years writing less and learning my pieces more in hopes of posting some videos of me actually playing them. I'm getting close to being able to do that, but it's a lot of work. Actually playing a piece with no errors or at least none detectable is very hard, at least for me which is why I'm a composer. So I understand the objections of those who see midi performances as cheating.

These days with the ubiquity of Youtube I don't see mere recordings as being nearly as relevant as in the past. It seems these days if it's not a video of a live performance of some type then it's not going to get as much attention. There are those who objected to Lola Vavavaroom (actually Astanova) because her appeal was more physical than artistic, but at least she could play a piece from beginning to end wthout any obvious mistakes. That may not qualify her as a concert pianist, but she's way beyond my capabilities.

So what's a composer to do? Midi performances do garner some attention and it seems one person has requested a score for one of my pieces as a result of this discussion. The music has to speak for itself and different people find different pieces appealing. Learning my own pieces has been quite helpful in improving my piano playing in general and that will inform my compositional efforts going forward, but there are only 24 hours in a day. Then again, I could spend less time here.

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: guybacos] #1836451
02/01/12 11:42 AM
02/01/12 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by guybacos
....what I don't understand (or maybe seem I don't understand), I don't understand.....

Cliff's Notes version: You can take care of everything I said by just saying upfront what the recordings are -- which you've already decided to do anyway, I think -- and if people mention aspects that aren't like the best actual piano playing, don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836452
02/01/12 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by guybacos
....what I don't understand (or maybe seem I don't understand), I don't understand.....

Cliff's Notes version: You can take care of everything I said by just saying upfront what the recordings are -- which you've already decided to do anyway, I think -- and if people happen to mention aspects that they think don't represent the greatest music-making, don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.


Oh! So were talking about in the course of any discussion. Ok. Yeah, you didn't have to mention this, I already knew that. wink

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: guybacos] #1836455
02/01/12 11:46 AM
02/01/12 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by guybacos
Oh! So were talking about in the course of any discussion....

Yes -- I said that in the first place but somehow you missed it. Anyway, we did good, considering. smile

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836458
02/01/12 11:53 AM
02/01/12 11:53 AM
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Guy, I don't understand the connection between the "Vienna" system software and the mock ups created with a DAW.

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: antony] #1836461
02/01/12 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by antony
Guy, I don't understand the connection between the "Vienna" system software and the mock ups created with a DAW.


In what sense? So I don't go off in a different direction.

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: guybacos] #1836466
02/01/12 12:01 PM
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So I will post it again, in the "digital pianos section" and these last threads never took place. Delete---Trash---Empty trash.

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: Mark_C] #1836475
02/01/12 12:16 PM
02/01/12 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
... don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.
How can someone who has posted more on just the two threads under discussion than some posters at PW have posted in all their posts at PW put together advise anyone about "just letting go"? You've said the same thing over and over and over....

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: pianoloverus] #1836488
02/01/12 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mark_C
... don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.
How can someone who has posted more on just the two threads under discussion than some posters at PW have posted in all their posts at PW put together advise anyone about "just letting go"? You've said the same thing over and over and over....


You must admit, that's true. smile

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: pianoloverus] #1836527
02/01/12 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mark_C
... don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.
How can someone who has posted more on just the two threads under discussion than some posters at PW have posted in all their posts at PW put together advise anyone about "just letting go"? You've said the same thing over and over and over....

The thing was, not to wrongly try to counter stuff.
I don't do that. grin

But that's OK -- I know that you don't particularly go for context. You like to just pick out stuff and trash-talk it for the heck of it. smile

Re: So, what IS our expectation on posted recordings? [Re: pianoloverus] #1836562
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mark_C
... don't try to counter it; either acknowledge it, or let it go.
How can someone who has posted more on just the two threads under discussion than some posters at PW have posted in all their posts at PW put together advise anyone about "just letting go"? You've said the same thing over and over and over....


It's not because of Mark I changed the presentation, but half the members who weren't happy about the way it was presented may want my head for a long time, one guy registered as the name of my friend, synergy543 on the UK piano forum and posted some serious attacks on me. How do you think synergy543 feels about getting his identity stolen? And then I feel responsible, and guess what? That's what the moron wants?

As for the new thread, I hope it will not get drowned with echos of the previous threads. I already see the first reply is echoing... Is this really necessary? Time will tell if this made things better or not.

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