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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830079 01/23/12 04:55 AM
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Sorry you've had problems with the Nord Sound Manager, but I suggest it's probably down to your individual computer - there don't appear to be widespread reports of problems with this software and I've never come across any myself (although I'm using the Mac version).

But given that problem could be addressed, I'm not sure why you'd need your SD card. Wouldn't you just load in the sounds you need for the gig from your computer beforehand?


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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830098 01/23/12 07:23 AM
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Absolutely no problems with the Nord Sound Manager here either.
I'm using a weedy netbook running OS X and the samples transfer without any problems.

James
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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830102 01/23/12 07:44 AM
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I think What he's saying is you shouldn't need to connect your computer to the board, you should be able to use nord sound Manager on your computer to download the sounds and save them to a USB stick and then use the stick to transfer the sounds. If you were able to do this you could have ALL the Nord sounds on one stick and just load the "sets" you wanted for that particular gig etc


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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830108 01/23/12 07:57 AM
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Never going to happen.

An Android/iOS app could well do the job, however...

Cheers,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830123 01/23/12 08:49 AM
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Never say never James ....you can do exactly that on a Motif XF which uses the same type of flash memory for expansion and its very convenient. It can't be such a big deal for that to be implemented. 880mb of storage doesn't go very far on a NS2 and these days you should be able to carry your files around with you in your pocket.




Last edited by Dr Popper; 01/23/12 08:57 AM.

"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830144 01/23/12 10:34 AM
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Jazzwee, sorry about your problems with the NSM. Never had a single problem in the year I've had my NP1, or my NE3. I am willing to bet we'll have apps down the line from Nord. Apps are the future no doubt. Didn't realize all the music apps available for my iPad/iPhone. For most day to day tasks, I don't really need a laptop. Yamaha has a great sheet music app for the iPad called NoteStar. It's free as well, although you have to buy sheet music off it. But it's convenient and I can now just set my iPad on the piano...no need for paper!


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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
jazzwee #1830151 01/23/12 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzwee
I'm not even suggesting as major a change as you suggest anotherscott.

As I said, being a 'gigging machine', I'll know in advance which sounds I'll need. So I could in theory have all possible sounds in an SD card and then pick a 'Live Mode' set in advance which will transfer all the needed sounds to Flash ROM (if that's what this is).

Yes, it could take some seconds or minutes to transfer. Not a problem. But that kind of flexibility would make the 500MB even more effective since I will likely have less sounds in a 'Live mode set'. How many do you use in a particular gig?

This could make more samples available to me without the need for hooking up a laptop.

Ah, I see, the issue is avoiding the use of the laptop. Although you had a bad experience, I don't know if that's as much of a problem for most people that it would be worth changing that approach. They would have to build the software for sound-swapping into the Nord (instead of having the user rely on a computer), and they would have to come up with some interface for doing it, within the limitations of a tiny screen and presumably some repurposing of the existing front panel controls. Other than addressing your bad-experience-computer-aversion, what would it really accomplish? Yeah, you could do it AT the gig (without bringing a computer) instead of having to do it at home BEFORE going to the gig, but I think that's about it. As long as they're using the slow-write Flash, it would take just as long as it does now. Definitely not seconds. Minutes, yes... a good number of them.

Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dr Popper #1830159 01/23/12 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Never say never James ....you can do exactly that on a Motif XF

The XF does have the advantage of the big screen, which helps. The XF also has the downside of a complicated interface in general. These Yamaha/Korg/Kurzweil do-everything workstation approaches are more flexible, but their complications are sometimes among the very things that a Nord buyer is trying to avoid. I guess that's the balance Nord is always trying to address.

But I like K. James' idea of iOS/Android versions of the Sound Manager. That could be convenient, and still provide the visual real estate for a simple interface, and it would not require any re-working of the keyboards themselves, so it's probably more easily do-able. Ergonomics would be better than using a computer.

And now that I think of it, while I have no problem using the laptop with the Nord, it would be better if I could be in the other room using my laptop for other things while my Nord was updating its sounds. (Okay, jazzwee, that's another advantage of getting the computer out of the equation!)

Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830182 01/23/12 11:48 AM
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Just to be clear, when I had a problem with the latest Sound Manager, it was with a brand new laptop with Windows 7.

The solution, which took me a couple of days to figure out, was to use the older Sound Manager that came on the CD.

Anyway, I understand the issues raised about the slow write Flash ROM. But what I'm describing doesn't have to be something that needs a complicated interface.

On the computer, you could specify your "Live Mode Sets". Then all the samples can be on the SD card or some such. The interface could be just "Load Live Mode Set 1"..."2"..."3"...The small screen doesn't need to have a major redesign. It could even be a new physical button.

This SD card could be permanently plugged into the board. Mind you I'm looking ahead here. Since the NP2 has a separate sample library, don't assume the limitation is just what's available today. I'm thinking NP3 and NP4 here where you could have many gigabytes of choices available.

Like I said earlier, the secondary advantage is that the memory available (currently 500MB), would seem bigger since I would have no reason to load every single possible sound.

I'm not a computer hardware guy so I don't know trends in Flash Memory but I assume this technology isn't constant either. I'm looking ahead in a few years. The write speed could possibly be faster then.

I'm surprised how close minded some of you guys are though. Technology changes so fast. I'm not thinking about some change in 6 months. I thinking a little farther out.

On the other hand, my comments may be moot with the flash memory becomes gigabytes large or there are new alternatives to "slow write" Flash memory.


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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
jazzwee #1830222 01/23/12 12:45 PM
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Ah, yeah, I was thinking more near-term than long-term. It will be interesting to see how technology develops. RIght now, the slow write speed of the flash is an issue... I guess it wasn't as much when boards had less of it to begin with. The Motif XF can have up to 2 gb of it, and that's great, but I seem to remember reading that it can take over an hour to set it up. So until that technology improves or some alternate technology supersedes it, there may be a practical limit to how much bigger that could go, even if it gets cheaper.

The Motif XF is a great board. I've always thought that Yamaha and Nord complement each other well. I just wish the XF series weren't so big and heavy! It would be nice if the lightweight MOX series had aftertouch and a slot to add one of those flash expansion boards.

Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
anotherscott #1830294 01/23/12 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Ah, yeah, I was thinking more near-term than long-term.


Yeah, I'm not being a hard-ass here about this. I'm just theorizing what could be good in some new version in the future. I'm sure this is trumped by other issues like better sounding samples.

Or maybe some new developments in modelling.

And also the biggest deal to all of us, the "best" action for the lightest weight.



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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830371 01/23/12 03:18 PM
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Yeah, the action thng is a big deal. To me there is certainly room to improve the action, but the NP action most importantly connects to the sounds really well for both piano and EP playing, if getting a better action increases weight, I'll pass since I'm quite content with the action as is. Even at just 28 years old, I'm done with heavy boards.

Last edited by ZacharyForbes; 01/23/12 03:19 PM.

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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830394 01/23/12 03:38 PM
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Nord doesn't make their own actions, so to some extent, that much is out of their control. But actually, I already like the action in the NP more than any under-50-pound board from Roland or Yamaha (and over any board at all from Kawai or Korg), but as always, that's a very subjective thing... which means that asking for a "better" action is a very nebulous request! Though a third sensor and the ability to do a proper thumbnail gliss are probably things everyone would agree are improvements.

Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830396 01/23/12 03:43 PM
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Well there are some quickie improvements that could be nice on the action. For example, ivory feel (just to match the competition). That shouldn't increase weight.

Something about the action though is bothering me right now. I've been feeling strains on my hand especially after a long gig. I'm playing differently on the NP and it's raising tension. I haven't figured why yet. I sense no problem when I'm aware but I must be reacting differently to the 'sound vs. feel' factor. It should be the opposite since the action is presumably lighter.

I have no problem playing for hours on my heavy weighted Grand. Maybe it has something to do with my perception of the lighter action.


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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830455 01/23/12 05:03 PM
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The one improvement I would like to see with the Nord Sound Manager is the ability to preview samples (on the computer) before uploading them to the instrument. I don't believe the Nords support USB-MIDI so direct input may not be possible, however a user selectable .MID file would surely be sufficient to provide a rough approximation of how the sample will sound once the upload is complete.

Cheers,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Kawai James #1830471 01/23/12 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
The one improvement I would like to see with the Nord Sound Manager is the ability to preview samples (on the computer) before uploading them to the instrument. I don't believe the Nords support USB-MIDI so direct input may not be possible, however a user selectable .MID file would surely be sufficient to provide a rough approximation of how the sample will sound once the upload is complete.

Cheers,
James
x


So you don't believe their sound samples ? smile

The good news is such a change could occur on a current version since it's independent from the board.

I'm beginning to see the advantage with going by way of the App versus loading everything on the board. Easier to make upgrades to features.



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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Kawai James #1830493 01/23/12 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
The one improvement I would like to see with the Nord Sound Manager is the ability to preview samples (on the computer) before uploading them to the instrument. I don't believe the Nords support USB-MIDI so direct input may not be possible, however a user selectable .MID file would surely be sufficient to provide a rough approximation of how the sample will sound once the upload is complete.

Yeah, that would be great. I suppose it isn't trivial, as the sounds are in a proprietary compressed format, and currently depend on the keyboard itself to decode and process them (maybe this is why the keyboard can't play the sounds until the sounds are transferred into it from the computer), but Nord could presumably write a Mac/PC app that could do the same thing, and the Nord keyboard itself could function as the "dongle" (since Nord would presumably not want people to be able to play or send MIDI files to the sounds without owning a Nord keyboard).

Some Nords do play MIDI over USB, btw. The NS2 and the new NP2 do. (The old NP did as well, but since it couldn't load sounds from the sample library, that really wouldn't be relevant for the issue we're talking about.)

Last edited by anotherscott; 01/23/12 10:37 PM.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1830526 01/23/12 06:25 PM
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Ah, thanks for clarifying the USB-MIDI point - I was unsure if this was indeed a feature of the NS2. I wonder if it's possible to have the Sound Manager open while a MIDI app is running? Presumably one must take priority over the other?

Cheers,
James
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Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
anotherscott #1830728 01/23/12 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The Motif XF can have up to 2 gb of it,


Actually it can have up to 2TB ! It's just that currently the boards are 512mb and 1gb each due to cost and speed issues but larger (and substantially faster) Rev 2 flash boards are on the drawing board for the future.


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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: Nord Piano 2 announced
Dave Ferris #1835344 01/30/12 08:52 PM
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I wonder if the NP2 solves the annoying ground loop issue of the NP?

Last edited by James Pun; 01/31/12 01:39 AM.

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