Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum should I always be counting when not using a metronome?

Should I always be counting the time (in my head or aloud) when not using a metronome?

I ask that because I learned the minuet 114 (bach) without worrying with keeping a steady beat (checking with metronome or counting in my head), and yesterday I used the metronome and it sounded much better...

...so your subconscious mental clock isn't well-enough trained yet! Better keep using the conscious one, or a metronome for a bit longer.

Only when you are at the piano, not at work or when shopping or folk will think you have an OCD where you are continualy counting.

Sounds like speaking from experience.

I agree that your internal clock isn't strong yet. I'd keep practicing with the metronome until you can "feel" the beats. Takes some time. I remember in college thinking I had good time and when an instructor made me play a piece with a metronome, I was shocked how unsteady it was. To this day I still work with a metronome to develop my internal time.

I either count quietly or in my head when I'm sight-reading or practising tricky parts. I find it's much easier to sub-divide when I'm doing the physical counting.

I also have my own way of counting rhythms.

When I'm counting normal crotchets I say "1 - 2 - 3 - 4". (Or "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and")

When I'm counting quavers I say "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and".

When I'm counting dotted crotchets I say "1 - 2 and 3". ("and" is the note following the dotted crotchet)

When I'm counting dotted quavers I say "1...dah 2". ("dah" being the note that falls before the second beat.)

When I count sixteenth notes, I say "1 dah dah dah 2 dah dah dah 3 dah dah dah 4 dah dah dah". (which is, of course, when playing quite slowly.)

I wonder if that made any sense...

It's important to learn to play with a steady beat, both with and without the metronome. Rhythm is as much a part of a piece as notes. So, yes, if you're still unsteady, then count when you're not using the metronome. Of course, this supposes that you will count steadily and not slow up in the hard parts and then speed up again in the easy parts. You may find that you are steadier counting than not counting, and steadier with the metronome than when just counting. But you should still practice counting without the metronome as well as with the metronome, to build up your rhythmic abilities.

Depending on what you are playing, your timing could be left entirely up to the way you want to express the emotion in the piece you are performing.

When you perform a piece, you are essentially transmitting musical information in the form of sound waves to the listener.

How the listener receives this information is entirely up to you.


Many of the nicest performances I have heard take the structured timing of a piece and toss it out the window in lieu of letting the emotion determine what specific timing will be used and when.

I'm not sure if this method works for all genres of music but it works very well with new-age neo-classical type stuff as you can control the delivery, timing and ultimately the effect of the music you are performing.

Piano is mostly a solo instrument. So one may never play with others on the piano.
But most music is a collaborative effort with other musicians. One of a great aspect of music is the social aspect. Being able to play with other musicians can be a wonderful experience for many playing music.

Imagine playing in a duet/orchestra and you can't keep time...
No one wants to (or will) play with you if you can't keep time.
You can't accompany singers if you can't keep time.

Cue the "Intuitive way some bands work" arguaments.

My experience is that counting helps sort out rhythm, but the metronome gives you a clue on even tempos. These may be related in some cases, but they aren't always the same thing as far as problem solving is concerned.

hahaha. So true lol. If I don't use a metronome I know my timing is likely off unless I really concentrate and know the piece well so I'm not slowing down at the hard parts :p

So true. A lot of people use a metronome to see how fast they can go. But I feel that its best tool is judging how steady your time is. I always try to increase to tempo to the point where I'm about to lose control of time and practice there.


Absolutely! I think the question you have to be always asking yourself is whether you are tossing out tempo for interpretation reasons or slowing down just because that part is hard. I believe timing is one of those things you learn to be strict about so you can decide when to play in or out of time later. Can you imagine a March or a Waltz out of time?

A lot of great performers play ahead or behind the beat for effect. But as a guitar teacher once told me "You can't play ahead or behind the beat until you know exactly where the beat is".

Very well said.

Agree. I've always been told too that you have to know the rules of music before you're allowed to break them.

Amen.

Cathy