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The ageing CE200 has been updated to the CE220, with PHI sound and 88-key sampling.

Hardly a game-changer, but a welcome upgrade none the less.
"Loved the key action, hated the sound" posts from folks who try this model in musical instrument chain stores should finally become a thing of the past.



No new CAs, CNs, MPs - Kawai America's primary focus this year is the new Shigeru Kawai series.

Cheers,
James
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@doremi: Kawai's acoustic grands are not direct competitors with Yamaha's AvantGrands, though. I'm sure that's what KarelG is referring to.

I'm sure we'd all love to see a millennium 3 action in a hybrid piano but at the moment acoustic grand with "anytime" is the only place you can get that.

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I actually think you misunderstood the other people. No sane person would imply that Kawai doesn't have the ability to make something like the AvantGrand, particularly on the action side.

They just aren't doing it. Possibly there are issues engineering the whole package (mostly the digital side), but most likely it's just not profitable to do so.

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Well, we'll see what they charge for it. From the pictures it looks like it will be larger and heavier than the N1 and N2, which I consider a downside.

You have a point that the difference between an upright and grand action doesn't come up much. It is an inferior action, though, and a bigger box. They will have to make it noticeably cheaper for people to be drawn to it over the N1, I would think. And an upright action isn't *that* much cheaper than a grand action, so it seems strange to me.

On the other hand, it has a great look about it. If they price it near that of the CS9, the latter could become a tough sell.

(This has gone on longer than is optimal already, but to be clear the "can't" in the post you quoted could refer to the profitability or perhaps willpower issue I mentioned, which makes total sense. Your follow-up, on the other hand, disambiguates it as if Kawai lacked the ability to manufacture a good hybrid, something that does not make sense. For that reason I think the misunderstanding was yours. Following it up with an invitation to play Kawai acoustics further supports the notion that you misunderstood the post you quoted, even though you were apparently addressing a completely different topic.)

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We are talking about a piano that's several thousand dollars below the N1 in price basically price wise its the next step up from a Clavinova 480 and I don't agree that a Yamaha U upright action is inferior to ANY current digital action.

No one said that, actually, so you are disagreeing with thin air. Someone in this thread suggested that ALL acoustic actions are better than ALL digitals, which is quite different. If you agree with that, stop by my parents' house and play their spinet.

Several thousand dollars less than the N1 does get it into a range where it competes with normal digitals, so if that's right it will indeed be interesting. I didn't see a MSRP. Do you know what it is?

I was told substantially less then the N1 .... and I'll restate this a bit more clearly.

ALL current acoustic actions from major manufacturers are superior to ALL current digital actions which leaves out your parents spinet.

I was told substantially less then the N1 .... and as for the action I'll restate this a bit more clearly.

ALL current acoustic actions from major manufacturers are superior to ALL current digital actions which leaves out your parents spinet.

I'm not saying I personally prefer upright actions to many DP actions (NW-Stage comes to mind) but for a real piano feel the U action is closer to my CF6 or C7 then anything on a DP.

As for size BTW the NU1 case is based on the S Clavinova so I'd imagine it would be around 100kgs

I love the action on my U3. The ONLY thing I miss is the rapid repeat capability. You have to work a lot harder for those. Most DPs are still sub-optimal in the rapid repeats department too though.

Regarding repeats, presumably the NU1 would have something as good as or better than the tri-sensor GH3 to help with that. I.e - it would have a nice upright action, with the added benefit of double-escapement simulation, so it would in some way be better than a standard upright action.

Greg.

Yeah I'm curious about where they are going to put the sensors and how, if at all, they will implement double escapement-type playability.

I'm not sure that it could be done authentically. There would be a disjoint between the hammer speed and motion, and the loudness of the strike. I have a silent system in my U3 and if I turn off the real strings and play the key with fast shallow repeats, it is clear that there is no capability for rapid, controllable repeats with shallow lift. That is because it lacks the physical escapement mechanism which allows the jack to give the hammer another push. On the upright, you have to release the key enough to reinitialise it and give new positive momentum to the hammer. I think they would be better off not even trying to do it on the upright action.

Here's an analogy:

Imagine playing tennis with a ball on an elastic rope: on and upright, you have to wait for the ball to come all the way back to you before you can hit it again. Swinging the racket again before that wouldn't give the ball any momentum. On a grand, it's like you can hit the ball the first time, then step in a few meters and hit it earlier and more often.

If you had a note every time you hit the tennis ball, it matches up fine on the grand version. On the upright version, you would be triggering a note every time you swing the racket, rather than every time you hit the ball. This mismatch would be unacceptable from a feel/control perspective. You need to feel that the hammer is producing the sound. The piano is a percussion instrument. To trigger notes by key position in spite of hammer movement, is counterintuitive.

So, my guess is, no rapid repetition on the NU1.

Ando,
Yes, that all makes perfect sense to me too. However, despite all that, I'll be amazed if they don't give it something equivalent to at tri-sensor action. It will be very interesting to see what they do.

Greg.

Well, there have been a few upright actions that feature a double escapement mechanism. I think it would be quite a hurdle for Yamaha if they were planning on making a cheap transplant from the U series though. It needs a quite different mechanism in some ways. I do agree that it would certainly be something they are looking at trying to solve though.

They could just make one of their silent uprights minus soundboard, frame and strings - maybe that's basically what it is (in a slightly smaller, alternative case). Their silent technology is well developed and well regarded. Why would they need to do much more than that - other than fit an amp and speakers?

Speaking of which, does anyone know if the silent uprights have sensors on hammers AND keys like the AvantGrand or whether they only have key sensors like you could get if you had your piano tech add a midi strip?

Don't know - good question!