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Does it makes sense to put an upright action into any digital? I've thought upright action is just compromise and everybody prefers grand piano action...

Well any real piano action is better then any digital action so yes

Meh, I guess I disagree with both of those statements. There are plenty of acoustic actions that are inferior to plenty of digital actions, all things considered. The distributions overlap in terms of quality.

I also don't think an upright action in a hybrid piano makes sense. How much cheaper would it really be than the N1 because of the action change? A little bit of horizontal space would be traded for some vertical space with the associated loss of key length, double escapement, and gravity-instead-of-springs action. Not a big win.

I've played some wonderful upright actions. I've also played some not-so-wonderful grand actions.

Regardless, even in a DP, I imagine that there might be a size/shape advantage to the upright action if you're installing it in an upright-shaped enclosure.

If Yamaha wanted an instrument between the quality of the AvantGrand and their digitals, they could probably design a simple-ish action that is much improved over current digital actions without using an acoustic action.

Say, start with something that looks like RM3, but with keys that are as long as acoustic keys. Use two hammer sensors for velocity and an optical key sensor for dampers. You are done. If you want to take it to the next level, you can add a true escapement, though that adds a lot of complexity.

Probably not worth it, though. The savings to using such an action or an upright action instead of using a grand action can't be that big relative to the total cost of the instrument. Would you buy an upright-action AvantGrand if it was $500 or even $1000 less than the N1? I wouldn't.

Is Kawai the only one of the big names who hasn't released a list of products to be shown at NAMM or have I missed it? All I really am looking forward to is seeing if they have something new to replace CA-63, so I can finally either buy it or start waiting for the updated model

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If the action is as good as on a Yamaha U1, I think it the action would be the least of your concerns.

With top DP actions now rivaling those of some acoustics, I see no need for installing a compromise action (which is exactly what an upright action is) in a DP.

It makes no sense to put an upright action on a DP: the reason why concert pianists won't play serious stuff on uprights is because their action is compromised and rapid ornaments and repeated notes etc are difficult/impossible to execute. DPs with actions similar (even if not identical) to those of acoustic grands (i.e. using gravity for key return, not springs) can repeat notes as quickly as on good grands - if they have the right (number of) sensors.

Not to mention that the sound will be a Yamaha grand sample...upright action makes no sense to me either.

I just noticed between another thread and google that the NU1 is not a wild prediction, it's a real thing. I'm not sure why it's not in the list of Yamaha announcements.

Just in case anyone was like me and thought we were being hypothetical here...

A hybrid piano with an upright action. That really is a first.

I think there are a lot of assumptions in there. Maybe concert pianists don't play on uprights because, well, they don't need to. Grands are always available, and they sound better. At any rate, I would guess that, for the vast majority of players, who are not concert pianists, the "lesser" action of an upright is not the limiting factor in their technique. (And as I mentioned, I have played some uprights that were much nicer to play than some grands!)

BTW, quick repetition isn't everything, and also doesn't necessarily require extra sensors (though retriggering a sound, pedal-up, without muting the previous strike, does require a third sensor). Simple two-sensor unweighted boards can permit extremely rapid repetition. (Unfortunately, they also tend to provide no decent control of dynamics!)

Can you elaborate what you mean by this and explain why it should be so. Because the sensors are too far apart perhaps? Control of dynamics in a two-sensor action is not a problem I've noticed or heard people complain about.

He meant that the unweighted boards offer no control, not that they are two sensor.

Although weighted two-sensor actions do tend to be less capable in the area of dynamic control during rapid repetition, for some reason that the technically-minded can doubtless explain. Three-sensor actions are definitely preferable if you need that level of control.

Oh yes, I agree purely in terms of rapid repetition. But in a general sense I don't think the third sensor offers any great advantage in control of dynamics.

Gotcha. That makes more sense.

Though my question/worry about two sensor actions is whether they are close enough together. The first sensor encountered has to lift the damper so it happens something like half way through the stroke. I would prefer it if velocity was sensed at two points close together near the bottom of the stroke so that the effects of accelleration would be negligible. In other words, so that the time between the two sensors is a good estimate of the velocity as it passes the last sensor.

Oh, so now, let's just see their sales figures, but it really looks like they are going after Kawai CS9 with this beast. It's really a pity that Kawai cannot come with a real competitor for AvantGrand's line... Would be good for customer to make their prices a little bit lower.

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