2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
68 registered members (Beowulf, Coker, Amy H, CyberGene, butchkoch, Craig Hair, clothearednincompo, danielp11, Animisha, 11 invisible), 312 guests, and 406 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
newbie question: DP with AudioBox #1826941 01/18/12 06:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
C
Csillag Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
Hi,

I have two (very basic) questions.

1.

I would like to route sound from my Presonus Audiobox USB to my (hopefully) soon-to-arrive Kawai CN-33 DP.

The output ports of the Audiobox are pair of 1/4" TRS.
The line input ports of the DP are pair of 1/4" mono jacks.

What kind of cables or converters do I need to convert them?

2.

The Audiobox provices an MIDI/USB bridge.
The DP has a built-in USB midi interface, too.

How do these compare to each other?
(Features, latency, ease of use, etc.)

Thank you for your help:

Kristof

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: Csillag] #1827009 01/18/12 10:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,416
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,416
1. The Presonus AudioBox has dual 1/4" TR phone jacks, left and right, so you'd use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CPP202-Dual-Cable-6-5/dp/B000068O1B
That one is 6.5 feet long. They're available in other lengths, too.

(Question: Why are you feeding sound INTO the piano?)

2. Choosing USB (piano to computer) vs. MIDI (piano to AudioBox) won't affect latency. Latency happens elsewhere, in the audio hardware and software of the computer. So no worries.

I chose USB because (a) I did not originally have an AudioBox, so I did not have any MIDI ports on the computer, and (b) USB cables are cheap and easy to find.

But since you have an AudioBox, you could choose either USB or MIDI cabling. It doesn't matter which.

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: MacMacMac] #1827019 01/18/12 10:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
C
Csillag Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
1. The Presonus AudioBox has dual 1/4" TR phone jacks, left and right, so you'd use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CPP202-Dual-Cable-6-5/dp/B000068O1B
That one is 6.5 feet long. They're available in other lengths, too.


The docs says that the AudioBox has balanced TRS output ports.
Is it really OK if I simply plug TR jacks into them?

How does this work? Does the AudioBox auto-detect the connected cable, and switches the output signal to unbalanced, or something?

Quote
(Question: Why are you feeding sound INTO the piano?)


I don't have external speakers, so I plan to use the built-in speakers of the DP to play the sound coming for the computer. (Typically, a software piano).

Thank you:

Kristof

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: Csillag] #1827055 01/18/12 11:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
G
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
Originally Posted by Csillag
How does this work? Does the AudioBox auto-detect the connected cable, and switches the output signal to unbalanced, or something?


Not sure whether there is actual autodetection or it just uses one side of the balanced signal, but it does indeed work.

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: Csillag] #1827064 01/18/12 11:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,416
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,416
Csillag ... Do you use headphones?
If so, can you compare the sound of the AudioBox when played through its headphone jack ... vs. the sound from its line outputs?

My AudioBox line outputs sound great when fed to an amplifier and speakers (or headphones).
But the AudioBox headphone output gives a very thin sound with no low-end.

So I wonder if you get that, too?

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: MacMacMac] #1827223 01/18/12 03:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
C
Csillag Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Csillag ... Do you use headphones?

Yes.

Quote
If so, can you compare the sound of the AudioBox when played through its headphone jack ... vs. the sound from its line outputs?


Yes, but only when I will be able to drive something via its line outputs.
(That is, when my DP gets here, and I get a suitable cable.)

Quote
My AudioBox line outputs sound great when fed to an amplifier and speakers (or headphones).
But the AudioBox headphone output gives a very thin sound with no low-end.

So I wonder if you get that, too?

I have not yet noticed it at all, but then again, I had no reference to compare to.

When I will have my config set up, I will compare

A) Audiobox:headphone-out -> headphone
agains
B) Audiobox:line-out -> DP:line-in -> DP:headphone-out -> headphone

, and listen for any difference.

Kristof

Re: newbie question: DP with AudioBox [Re: MacMacMac] #1827263 01/18/12 04:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,179
S
sullivang Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,179
Originally Posted by MacMacMac


2. Choosing USB (piano to computer) vs. MIDI (piano to AudioBox) won't affect latency. Latency happens elsewhere, in the audio hardware and software of the computer. So no worries.


This may not always be true. For example, I compared the MIDI latency of my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, to that of the integrated MIDI interface of a desktop computer. So, for the FTU, the MIDI is of course travelling over the USB to the host computer. In both cases, the MIDI OUT port is looped back to the MIDI IN port. I don't have results yet for pure USB - that is harder to test. However, I do have a means of testing it, however it has some human error. (play notes on a digital piano, and measure the time between finger contact with the key to first audio out from the sound generator. I have used this method in the past with reasonably consistent measurements)

Results, using only note-on/off events:

FTU (MIDI over USB)
Message Latency: 7.63ms
Jitter: 7.19ms
Max. Deviation: 11.24ms

MPU401 (integrated on desktop's motherboard)
Latency: 0.38ms
Jitter: 0.01ms
Max. Deviation: 0.48ms

From memory, the "message latency" is the average latency, and the "max deviation" is either the absolute maximum latency encountered, OR, the deviation away from the average. (can't remember)

I used this utility:
http://earthvegaconnection.com/evc/products/miditest/index.html#download

Now, those results can't possibly be right, because it takes 1ms to transmit a Note-On. I remember having solved that problem - I had to disable "internal timestamps" in the utility in order to get proper results. So, the actual results will be even higher than the above - I will re-test. (I did repeat the tests, but I can't find the results. I pulled these particular results out from a Pianoteq forum post I made)

@Csillag: FWIW, I agree that you probably won't notice any difference, or, perhaps, a slight difference. It probably won't matter which method you use to connect - MIDI through the Audiobox, or directly with USB. However, you may find a slight discrepancy.

If/when I do some further latency testing, I'll publish the results in a seperate thread.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 01/18/12 04:42 PM.

Moderated by  Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Rebuilt Steinways (was)? PFKAS?
by Maestro Lennie - 02/19/20 07:19 AM
Yamaha YDP s52 or Casio CDP 220R
by Love4Music - 02/18/20 09:11 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,056
Posts2,927,382
Members96,042
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3