Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
114 registered members (ando, Almaviva, agraffe, anotherscott, AlanB, 26 invisible), 1,912 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1811727 - 12/24/11 10:54 AM piano market in Europe sucks  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
rob.art Offline
Full Member
rob.art  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
Surprisingly both digital and acoustic! confused
I have recently moved from US to Europe and I'm shocked
not to be able to buy what I want in Christmas season whistle Can you imagine in America an item is out of stock for Christmas??? About 3 weeks ago I have decided for samick SIG-50 or/and yamaha CLP-465GP and guess what, I couldn't get it. There was only ONE Samick SIG-50 in December Shipment and main yamaha warehouse for Europe was out of their new CLP-465GP long before holidays. How come??? Do they know anything about holidays shopping and how to make money??? I can get this samick SIG-50 maybe before New Year but not for today Christmas Eve when I wanted and needed. Yamaha will be available next year sick That what the biggest store in Europe Thomann told me. I'm going back to US...

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1811740 - 12/24/11 11:39 AM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,018
Dave Horne Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,018
Vught, The Netherlands
The last five pianos\keyboards I've bought (Yamaha C3, P250, CP300, CP5, AvantGrand N3) all had to be ordered. The various dealers might have had one model on the floor but all the above mentioned pianos\keyboards had to be ordered.

(I should add that the C3 was ordered and initially used in the US.)



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#1811743 - 12/24/11 11:50 AM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,055
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,055
Georgia, USA
I suppose this thread should make us (in the US) stop and think and appreciate our brick-and-mortar piano dealers. I think sometimes we take them for granted and try to squeeze them for every dime of discount we can get.

Thank you to all our dealers who work hard to have painos on the show-room floor for us to try out. thumb

Happy Holidays!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#1811759 - 12/24/11 12:07 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
rob.art Offline
Full Member
rob.art  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?...


happy holidays anyway,
Rob

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1811765 - 12/24/11 12:15 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,856
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,856
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Perhaps business was too good this year and manufacturers under-predicted the market.

In turbulent economic times esitimating sales is very challenging. As a consultant to the industry, predominantly on marketing issues, I am often asked what my crystal ball says!

The lag time between the realization of need and the delivery of pianos to a market is significant. Over estimating the market is very costly in terms of cash flow, storage expenses, and discounts offered to move the goods.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#1811772 - 12/24/11 12:40 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
Grand Piano Haus Offline
Full Member
Grand Piano Haus  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
Skokie, IL
Well I know that the Tsunami that happened in Japan earlier this year caused certain components that Yamaha uses to build their digital pianos & keyboards to become scarce or unavailable.


Jeff
GPH


We proudly represent: Yamaha, Bösendorfer, Steingraeber & Söhne, Kayserburg, Ritmüller, Pearl River, CEUS, Disklavier Enspire, AvantGrand, Clavinova, & Live-Performance model-LX http://www.GrandPianoHaus.com.
#1811795 - 12/24/11 01:20 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Are you kidding? This happens ALL THE TIME in the US. You can't expect dealers to stock every single model from every brand they represent, ESPECIALLY if they have to buy them outright.

#1811804 - 12/24/11 01:34 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member
Brent H  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Away from a few major population centers most folks in the USA are lucky to have a handful of dealers within a 100-mile radius, each of which probably have at most two or three models from each of the (few) brands they carry. In my area, which has a quarter-million people within a two-country area, if you set out last week to find a Yamaha model such-and-such in stock at a dealer in a certain cabinet style and color your odds are maybe 1-in-3 of finding one. Unless it is the very most popular model.

If if you wanted an Estonia or Samick or Petros or some other specific brand and model, you wouldn't find one period end of sentence. I think people whose experience is entirely in large multi-million person conurbations have a misleading idea of what it's like to shop for a specialty item like a good piano.

Now if you just want "a grand piano" and aren't particularly specific as to brand, model, size, color and so forth (and if you're willing not to get it for like half-off the Piano Buyer SMP price) that's pretty doable in most cities. But the market for pianos is so fragmented that shopping for a specific brand and model takes patience, not withstanding how generic some of them seem based on frequent mentions in Internet forums...


Current Life+Music Philosophy: Less Thinking, More Foot Tapping

Ars Longa, Vita Brevis
#1811813 - 12/24/11 01:54 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 457
Glenn NK Offline
Full Member
Glenn NK  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 457
Victoria BC
Originally Posted by rob.art
But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?...


happy holidays anyway,
Rob


My impression is that North America is more of a consumer society than is Europe. I'm certainly not pointing a finger at the US because we in Canada are probably even more so. We've become accustomed to too much "stuff".

Glenn

#1812223 - 12/25/11 02:53 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,854
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Rank Piano Amateur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,854
rob.art complains: "Do [European dealers] know anything about holidays shopping and how to make money???" "But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?..."

If I were a real lawyer at a deposition, I would say that the question had been "asked and answered." Rather than accusing European dealers of naiveté or incompetence, how about you ask yourself why, in an economy where there is money to spend, a store might be out of the particular item you want to purchase.

How about this for a reason: it is BECAUSE there is money to spend in Europe--the stores ACTUALLY SOLD the items that they had in stock, and so they ran out before you wandered in looking for a particular piano.

Before you conclude that an entire continent worth of piano dealers is incompetent, you might ask yourself whether you left it too late to get what you wanted exactly when you wanted it. Coming from America, though, you of course demand instant gratification. . . .hmmm. . . .even on Christmas Eve which is, after all, the date of your post and (one might conclude) the date on which you went out and demanded NOW the ONE piano that would meet your needs. I bet you were eager to bargain, too, for a pre-Christmas sale price. . . .

Merry Christmas!

P.S. In any event, Santa can't fit all those pianos in his sleigh.

#1812306 - 12/25/11 05:49 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
rob.art Offline
Full Member
rob.art  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
Coming from America, though, you of course demand instant gratification. . . .hmmm. . . .even on Christmas Eve which is, after all, the date of your post and (one might conclude) the date on which you went out and demanded NOW the ONE piano that would meet your needs. I bet you were eager to bargain, too, for a pre-Christmas sale price. . . .

Merry Christmas!

P.S. In any event, Santa can't fit all those pianos in his sleigh.


ok then, it's not Europe market that sucks it's Santa... laugh

#1812343 - 12/25/11 07:52 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,055
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,055
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by rob.art
ok then, it's not Europe market that sucks it's Santa... laugh

I don't think those comments will get you any better results next Christams; Santa is listening... wink

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#1812347 - 12/25/11 08:17 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,617
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David-G  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,617
London
Originally Posted by rob.art
But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?...
happy holidays anyway,
Rob

Europe is a big place, it would be good to know which country you are referring to. Certainly in this part of Europe, the whole problem is that people are not spending money. They are paying off personal debt. That's why we are in a potential double-dip recession. I only wish that people did have a lot of money and were willing to spend it.

#1812373 - 12/25/11 10:40 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: Glenn NK]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 306
J_D Offline
Full Member
J_D  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 306
Texas, USA
[/quote]

My impression is that North America is more of a consumer society than is Europe. I'm certainly not pointing a finger at the US because we in Canada are probably even more so. We've become accustomed to too much "stuff".

Glenn [/quote]

Glen, you are correct. Just look at all the storage rental places. We have way too much stuff and constantly want more. ( Not everyone, but a lot of people do.)


J.D.
Hailun 178
#1812380 - 12/25/11 11:10 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,201
MacMacMac Offline
5000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,201
North Carolina
The CLP-465GP is a SLOW-moving model. I would be more surprised to find one in stock than out-of-stock.

#1812447 - 12/26/11 03:47 AM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Tweedpipe Offline
Full Member
Tweedpipe  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by rob.art
But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?... happy holidays anyway,
Rob


Rob,
I appreciate your frustration in not being able to immediately purchase the DP of your choice, especially at this time of year. However you make some sweeping statements, which can be very misleading for those people who have never visited Europe, and may take your comments at face value.
As another poster rightly says, Europe is a large place and in UK for example, people are indeed struggling to pay off huge debts.
As you appear to be a new visitor to Europe, allow me to expand on a few facts.
I believe I read that unemployment in the USA is currently running at approx 8.5% and consequently times are very tough for many. For comparison purposes the unemployment rate in UK and France is hovering around the 10% mark, and both countries are trembling at the prospect of a possible loss of their Triple A ratings. Although difficult to provide exact figures, the unemployment rate in Spain has been quoted at around 18%. In the whole Euro zone, an average of 10% unemployment has been mentioned, although determining an accurate figure is somewhat difficult.
2011 was the annus horribilis for the French Bourse which lost almost 20%.
If one is confined to France's Champs Elysee and immediate areas - it's difficult to imagine that the soup kitchens/meal-centres (or whatever one wishes to call these voluntary organisations) are busting at the seams with a constant stream of people in a desperate situation.
Yes, most of the large supermarkets are indeed regularly crowded as are many restaurants, but it's a resonable bet that the average takings are down compared to 'the better times.'
I'm usually optimistic, but I foresee 2012 as no better, although I'd love to be proved wrong.
Let's hope that those remaining piano companies in Europe survive the crisis, especially the top German ones like S&S, Sauter, Schimmel etc.
Happy holidays.


Currently working on:-
C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

Dear Noah,
We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5.
Yours sincerely,
The Unicorns



------------------------------

#1812458 - 12/26/11 04:29 AM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: rob.art]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,100
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dara  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,100
west coast island, canada
toys from china produced for europe.... and elsewhere

a small insight in to factory conditions in china
and the reality of life for countless millions of people

hopefully the ones that work in piano factories are a little more fortunate and have better living, environmental and working conditions.

this is the reality of life for so many beings here on earth,
slaving to give us toys




#1812550 - 12/26/11 12:12 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: Dara]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,210
Carey Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,210
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by Dara
toys from china produced for europe.... and elsewhere

a small insight in to factory conditions in china
and the reality of life for countless millions of people

hopefully the ones that work in piano factories are a little more fortunate and have better living, environmental and working conditions.

this is the reality of life for so many beings here on earth,
slaving to give us toys





I watched the entire video. Sobering indeed. Thanks for sharing.



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
#1814109 - 12/28/11 11:00 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: Tweedpipe]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Sparky McBiff  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
Originally Posted by rob.art
But was is the reasoning behind that??? People in Europe have a lot of money and they're willing to spend it so what's the problem?... happy holidays anyway,
Rob



I believe I read that unemployment in the USA is currently running at approx 8.5% and consequently times are very tough for many. For comparison purposes the unemployment rate in UK and France is hovering around the 10% mark, and both countries are trembling at the prospect of a possible loss of their Triple A ratings.


I don't know about the numbers for Europe but if anybody actually believes the unemployment numbers that the US government is claiming, then I've got some beach front property in Kansas to sell them.
The government's been putting out ridiculous numbers for both unemployment as well as inflation for quite some time.
I would roughly double whatever numbers the government claims. In some places in the US the unemployment is over 20%.
Heck, you figure since the government's been claiming that the US has been in an "economic recovery" for some time now that most people would realize that lying is a matter of policy for them now.

#1814729 - 12/29/11 08:24 PM Re: piano market in Europe sucks [Re: Dara]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
rob.art Offline
Full Member
rob.art  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Dara
toys from china produced for europe.... and elsewhere

a small insight in to factory conditions in china
and the reality of life for countless millions of people



I would be careful here, Chine has the most evolving and growing economy market right now and some say it has a chance to be next superpower country in near future. Sure in some places people work in not the ideal conditions but the truth is China has enough US dollars to buy samick piano for every person in their country... wink You know that number, do you?

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/17/news/international/china_gdp/index.htm


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
A Soprano on Her Head Book Study
by sara elizabeth. 06/29/17 07:03 AM
Can't play in front of others: probable reason.
by PianoStartsAt33. 06/29/17 05:35 AM
Maybe tuners are more into listening mode?
by johan d. 06/29/17 03:43 AM
Relations between pitches
by johan d. 06/29/17 01:51 AM
However long it takes . . . .
by peterws. 06/29/17 01:11 AM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,518
Posts2,640,037
Members88,215
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0