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Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price #1803322
12/09/11 03:34 PM
12/09/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline OP
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Does anyone have this vinyl record? Gary Graffman plays Beethoven 3rd piano concerto with the Chicago Symphony orchestra and Walter Hendl (spelling?) conducting. How much do you think this vinyl record is worth? My friend has it and I am very interested in buying it from him, but he said he found that it went for very high prices on the internet. When I searched for prices to compare with on the internet, I ran across a variety of prices from various sources.

First, with the ungodly expensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-GARY-G...t=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item5891211671

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GARY-GRAFFM...t=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cbf1a5163

This is much less, but still seems very expensive for a vinyl record:

http://www.popsike.com/Graffman-Beethoven-Concerto-3-RCA-Living-Stereo/320763143543.html

These almost seem reasonable, but I still feel iffy, compared to the prices I've payed for other pretty awesome vinyl records...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graffman-Chicago-Symphony-BEETHOVEN-CONCERTO-NO-3-mono-/220576923335

http://www.popsike.com/Beethoven-Conc-3-GARY-GRAFFMAN-LSC2396-LP1960-VG/260561180271.html

This looks like it could be reasonable:


http://www.gemm.com/item/GARY-GRAFF...THOVEN-PIANO-CONCERTO-NO-3/GML765989100/

And then I found these, which are in a MUCH more affordable price range...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beethoven-P...t=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item27be1750a1

http://www.seymourstuff.com/classrcavics.htm

What do you think? Who here is familiar with this recording, and how much do you think it is worth paying for it? Once again, to clarify, I am not looking to order from the links I listed... I was just finding prices to compare to so I could decide on a reasonable amount to pay my friend for this record, but since I found things ranging from $3 to $300 on the same record, I am totally confused! crazy

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Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1803323
12/09/11 03:38 PM
12/09/11 03:38 PM
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Also, how much should I pay for Rudolf Firkunsky playing Brahms' 1st piano concerto with William Steinberg conducting Pittsburg Symphony? I listened to previews of it online and REALLY liked what I heard.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1803339
12/09/11 04:08 PM
12/09/11 04:08 PM
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Never mind, mods please delete or lock. We came up with a great agreement. I will buy a huge bulk of good records he is getting rid of for a good price!

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1803344
12/09/11 04:16 PM
12/09/11 04:16 PM
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Cleveland, Ohio
Hank Drake Offline
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The fact that many worthy recordings by Graffman, Andre Watts, and Andre Tchaikovsky have never been transferred to CD reflects very badly on Sony.


Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Hank Drake] #1803347
12/09/11 04:32 PM
12/09/11 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank Drake
The fact that many worthy recordings by Graffman, Andre Watts, and Andre Tchaikovsky have never been transferred to CD reflects very badly on Sony.

Not to mention Malcolm Frager's Prokofiev 2 which has something of the status of a legend. And I've still never heard the damn thing...

My priorities and 'mad money' must be quite different from some collectors, as I could never conceive of blowing 300 bucks on an LP.

I mean really.





Jason
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: argerichfan] #1803353
12/09/11 04:48 PM
12/09/11 04:48 PM
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Westford, MA
the nosy ape Offline
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$0.25 at a yard sale is about my speed. I once bought a lot of 500 records for $10 and there were actually a bunch of good ones in there (also many really, really bad ones).

Last edited by the nosy ape; 12/09/11 04:50 PM. Reason: two different usages of "a lot" in the same sentence
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1803364
12/09/11 05:11 PM
12/09/11 05:11 PM
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Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Never mind, mods please delete or lock. We came up with a great agreement. I will buy a huge bulk of good records he is getting rid of for a good price!


Is the Graffman one of them? I don't own it, but have heard it and I know it is a rarity. What it's worth is another question, but as with anything it is worth only that which another is willing to pay for it.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: stores] #1803374
12/09/11 05:32 PM
12/09/11 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Never mind, mods please delete or lock. We came up with a great agreement. I will buy a huge bulk of good records he is getting rid of for a good price!


Is the Graffman one of them? I don't own it, but have heard it and I know it is a rarity. What it's worth is another question, but as with anything it is worth only that which another is willing to pay for it.


Yes it is, and yes, I got it! smile

the nosy ape, my music school's library gave away tons of vinyl records for free, and I walked away with so many of them!! Vinyl records are amazing.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805113
12/12/11 10:26 PM
12/12/11 10:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Here it is!!


Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: stores] #1805119
12/12/11 10:36 PM
12/12/11 10:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,258
New York
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Originally Posted by stores
....as with anything it is worth only that which another is willing to pay for it.

Absolutely. If I weren't particularly interested in the set, as I'm not grin I'd say something like:

Originally Posted by the nosy ape
$0.25 at a yard sale is about my speed....


But if I were desperately interested, I might trade my string of poloponies for it. smile

OSK: When it comes to things like this, IMO there's absolutely no way to give a reliable answer to your question. Even when there seem to be some reasonable "comps," they don't really apply, because each situation is different, plus even for the exact same item it can vary hugely from one moment to the next. This is how it is with any "thin market" where there isn't a large supply nor a constant flow of buying and selling. It's just whatever you can work out, which depends on your skill (which in this case seems to have been pretty darn good) smile as well as how desperate you are to get the thing.

Back in the day I needed 1 card to complete my set of "Zorro" cards. It wasn't a particularly valuable card, just the card that I was missing. I traded someone 50 cards to get it. It was worth it.
Sort of. ha

P.S. Graffman was the pianist for the only 'live' performance I ever heard of "your favorite [ahem] concerto." I don't think I have to tell you which one that is. grin
Main thing I remember is that the orchestra screwed up a little at the beginning of the 2nd mvt. Graffman smiled.
I have the LP set of his complete Tchaikovsky concerti. It's terrific.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805122
12/12/11 10:43 PM
12/12/11 10:43 PM
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New York
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P.S. I love seeing people still being into vinyl! IMO you can't beat it -- but I'm not sure how objective I'm being.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Mark_C] #1805131
12/12/11 11:15 PM
12/12/11 11:15 PM
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
P.S. I love seeing people still being into vinyl! IMO you can't beat it -- but I'm not sure how objective I'm being.


However objective or not, you are correct.

And I saw that he also has a vinyl record of that concerto, so I'll try to find it! smile

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805138
12/12/11 11:26 PM
12/12/11 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
....I saw that he also has a vinyl record of that concerto....

I hope you realize I meant Tchaik #1. ha

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Mark_C] #1805141
12/12/11 11:37 PM
12/12/11 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
P.S. I love seeing people still being into vinyl! IMO you can't beat it -- but I'm not sure how objective I'm being.

I have always thought that vinyl sounds better than CD. I have a small collection of vinyl, items I have picked up at second-hand dealers.


Jason
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805169
12/13/11 12:24 AM
12/13/11 12:24 AM
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I think that the difference between an LP and a CD is similar to the difference between a play and a movie. When you watch a play, you know that you are expected to make up the difference between the sets and the reality, and your mind does it so well that you ignore everything that is obviously not real. Also, you concentrate on the words and the action, the real meat of the play. At a movie, you expect everything to be very realistic, and so you are more aware of things that are off.

Of course, not everyone watches plays and movies in the same way, and this is one reason some people prefer movies to plays. I am not one of those people, however. I am not real big on recordings of any sort, either. There is just too much live music.


Semipro Tech
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805309
12/13/11 09:36 AM
12/13/11 09:36 AM
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Nobody is going to comment on the recording I shared? smile

Mark, sorry, I saw on the LP that he had indeed recorded the Brahms D Minor. I also saw somewhere that he recorded the Tchaikovsky 1st.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805321
12/13/11 10:00 AM
12/13/11 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
... my music school's library gave away tons of vinyl records for free, and I walked away with so many of them!!

I am jealous, how come I am never around for these types of things? Anyway, if you absolutely must have the Graffman record then buy it and average the cost over your entire collection to make yourself feel better.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805386
12/13/11 12:06 PM
12/13/11 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Nobody is going to comment on the recording I shared? smile

Mark, sorry, I saw on the LP that he had indeed recorded the Brahms D Minor. I also saw somewhere that he recorded the Tchaikovsky 1st.


Must be the Victrola version, because there is a lot of wow. RCA made some pretty thin records for a while, and that sounds like one of them.

I know I have a recording of Graffman playing a concerto or two, possibly Rachmaninoff, on the Mercury label, but it is stored away somewhere with all my shellac and vinyl recordings which I no longer listen to.


Semipro Tech
Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805577
12/13/11 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

Mark, sorry, I saw on the LP that he had indeed recorded the Brahms D Minor. I also saw somewhere that he recorded the Tchaikovsky 1st.


You got me curious so I dug around and found that he also recorded Prokofiev's 1st and 3rd with Szell and the Cleveland orchestra. Too bad I don't have a record player right now. smile Graffman is one of my all-time favorites.

Re: Help buying vinyl! Gary Graffman, Beethoven 3 concerto price [Re: Orange Soda King] #1805875
12/14/11 07:27 AM
12/14/11 07:27 AM
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Here is an interesting rarity - Graffman in the premiere of Benjamin Lees' 2nd piano concerto with Leinsdorf and the Boston Symphony. It's like Prokofiev crossed with Bartok. There are some weird problems with the source, which seems to be a tape of the broadcast - there are moments when another performance of something else sort of hovers in the background, adding an odd Charles Ives effect. But still, it's better than not to have it at all.

I love it that people are putting stuff like this, that is basically impossible to obtain otherwise, on YouTube. The uploader who gave us this also has a lot of other very rare material on his channel. Or, I should say, formerly very rare.

Back to Graffman...I can't help but think that his very aggressive approach to playing, which is really front and center in this piece, must have been a factor in why he got sidelined. In so many of his recordings, it often sounds like, instead of working with the instrument, he is trying to pound it into submission. That can be exciting, but there's a price to pay.


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