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Matt, as I'm sure you know, your N2 article is up now at Time, and someone has posted a link on the Piano Forum.

Great work!

(Post over/under now 2 on the "Why don't you post this in the *digital* forum?" reply.)

Stephen Hough is a London-based concert pianist. He's a bit unusual in that he also keeps a blog for the London Telegraph. It's interesting to have a window into the thoughts of a performer at that level. In any case, his December 1st entry into his blog covered digital pianos, specifically the Yamaha PF-1000 which he takes on the road with him. He uses it in his hotel room to practice.

He had this to say about the Avant Grand:

"The Yamaha PF-1000 was most useful although it is not one of their top electric pianos. That accolade has to go to the Avant Grand which is better than almost any upright and than a good many grands."

Not exactly on topic, but I thought it was a good read. The complete link to Stephen Hough's blog entry is:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/cultur...nt-companion-in-my-singapore-hotel-room/

I know of no way to more obviously or more clearly say to the world "I am a Midwesterner" than to say to a group, "Thanks, guys." That is soooooo Midwestern America. I know. I grew up there.

Down here, it would be "Thanks, y'all." Nobody ever uses the gender-neutral "guys" like I am so accustomed to from my formative years.

Likewise, I say "chaps".

James
x

Well, I'm pretty sure "guys" is everywhere in American casual speaking except in the deep south. It's all over the west, southwest, and northeast. With the midwest, that's basically everything (sorry Hawaii and Alaska).

Such a shame the English language doesn't have an acceptable second person plural. I would actually support "you-all," as my very southern English teacher used to assert was proper, as the new standard.

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here.

A while back, there was a discussion of grand versus upright actions and grand escapement/let-off. (The discussions are scattered over several threads. Here's one: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1783815/Re:%20Let-off%20feel%20-%20grands%20vs%20u.html#Post1783815 .) In the course of those discussions, which touched on the Roland PHA III, Kawai RM3 and Yamaha AvantGrand actions (all having an escapement feel -- whether related to a genuine escapement mechanism or not), the concept of "playing off the jack" came up.



I had never heard of this before. But I've since done some real world testing, and found that I can easily "play off the jack" on my Steinway, on the Yamaha acoustic that I take lessons on (a C1 or C2 -- I can never remember), and on my Roland RD-700NX. I cannot, however, play off the jack on my Yamaha AvantGrand N2. The sensors do not pick this motion up. That is somewhat odd to me, since Yamaha states that the AG action has hammer sensors as well as optical sensors.

BTW -- I came home tonight newly interested in playing the internal sounds of my N2, having read the piece in Time, having read the Hough blog, having seen the Youtube video of the British pianist endorsing the N1. Well, it didn't take long before I decided to fire up Ivory II. For me, I prefer the sound of the Yamaha C7 in Ivory ("At the C7" factory setting) to the AG's internal sounds. (And the Ivory II Steinway is better still.) You have to dial in the correct velocity curve, but Ivory is more expressive and more pleasing to listen to. I've tried to like the internal N2 sounds, but for me they fall short of Ivory and, indeed, the Roland SuperNatural APs.

I thought I'd pass this info along. The readers of Time should be alerted that they will not be able to "play off the jack" and attain the full expressivity of a CFIIIS or even a C1 with the AvantGrand. They also won't get the wood sharps that are part of the C line of acoustics.

The AvantGrand sharp keys are not wooden? Or do you just mean they are not the same as in the acoustic?

They aren't the wood composite material in the C line of acoustics. They are covered in plastic that's a little slicker than I'd like it to be.

I wear them; backless leather ones. Oh sorry, wrong forum.

In the article:


While the AG sample set is one of the best loopers around in terms of specs, and highly integrated DPs like the AG are often more than the sum of their parts, this statement could benefit from a bit more qualification IMO because it is presented to the uninitiated average Time reader. It seems to be suggesting the N2 sample set is superior to the best PC samplers, but there are various people here bypassing the internal samples by jacking their AGs into PCs, Macs, and even Nords.

Yes, dewster is right. I think that was a bit misleading. The samples in the AvantGrands are good by onboard sample standards, but it's the very unusual person who thinks they compare with, much less surpass, high quality sampled pianos. From a technical perspective they are not even in the neighborhood, and I feel comfortable saying that the difference in sound quality and realism is audible (in favor of Ivory II).

Of course, it was stated as your opinion, so it can't actually be *wrong*, but I suspect the euphoria of the new piano might have colored your perception. I'll be interested to see if you change your opinion over time.

Whilst all you non Avant Grand owning individuals pour forth your opinions - which you are fully entitled to do of course - you need to remember that to PLAY, as a STAND ALONE piano using the onboard sound system it is tremendously effective and messing about with software is just something you would never want or need to do.

To find a piano to RECORD is a different matter altogether. If you want the tactile pleasure of using the AG's keyboard but want to record a piano or want a piano of a different timbre or other tonal characteristics I can easily see how you would consider alternatives to the onboard sounds.

But the experience of just sitting down at the AG and playing where the four channel sound is appropriately amplified by the piano itself and the connection between keys and tonal dynamics is all there - I cannot imagine you would get an equal, let alone better, result with using multiple components/computers and software. So in this respect Matt's observations are probably completely valid - and he speaks from experience now.

Steve

From my experience: the N2 is a nice, albeit expensive, MIDI controller. The internal sounds don't do it for me. By piping it into Ivory, I get better sound and better touch. I've just about got it playing like my Steinway B, which has been very carefully regulated. After a little more tweaking, I will post my preferred velocity curve.

The only reason I'm making this post is to caution those who might think the AG is worth the premium. You should at least try both the Kawai RM3 action (MP10 and CA93) and the Roland PHA III action with Ivory II. And you should try the Roland SuperNatural APs. If I were writing for a widely-circulated news magazine at Christmastime, I'd mention those alternative products as valid high quality options worthy of consideration.

What's the current equivalent of a Yamaha PF-1000?

I don't think there is one - it's like a cross between a lowish level CVP Clavinova and CP300.

I have an answer to the question I posed. I first wrote Renner in the US and they informed me they don't make the keys of the action. I was passed onto a Rick Wheeler from the Roseland Piano Co.

He answered my question very promptly.

He gave me the lengths of keys in mm (which I converted and rounded) for a nine footer, a seven footer and a five footer. I was also told that the lengths would vary with manufacturer.

A nine footer's key length would be about 623 mm \ 24.5 inches
A seven footer's key length would be about 523 mm \ 20.5 inches
A five footer's key length would be about 480 mm \ 19 inches

So, in order to have a nine footer's action in an AvantGrand, Yamaha would have to make the package about five inches deeper.

Dave, how long are the keys of the N1/N2/N3 (assuming they are all the same length)?

Cheers,
James
x

Good question. I don't know. Once I learn how to easily remove the action I'll let you know.

I'm so glad that my hearing is not as discerning as some of the people who dislike the AG internal sounds. I enjoy both acoustic pianos. Even if Ivory is better, the samples are not 4-channel so playing them through the N2 speakers would not give you the same separation. Paying for a AG only for the action seems like a huge waste of money. If anything, I wish the EP sounds were better.

I think the differences in quality between decent piano sounds are mostly clear through headphones. When using speakers (especially unexceptional speakers) there sometimes isn't enough detail to tell. Further, when using headphones the AG sound is reduced to stereo, removing whatever advantage the four channels provide. So maybe through the onboard speakers the acoustic sound could compare well with a piped-in stereo Ivory sound. Though I'm pretty sure people have said that they liked piped in Ivory better, despite the noise gate issue with the AG line-in.

But heavy headphone users I would expect to prefer Ivory. I almost always use headphones, personally.