2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
73 members (anamnesis, Bill McKaig,RPT, AaronSF, Belger1900, Azalingchan, blueviewlaguna., anotherscott, AJB, BMKE, 80k, 13 invisible), 4,921 guests, and 315 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
I'm mostly self teaching and using books. But we also have friends who play better than I do. Being able to ask a question or get a tip now and then helps a lot.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,674
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,674
anadyr21, I so agree. I am doing exactly the same thing. I am also playing pieces I can master in a week, and my new teacher focuses on musicality and technique as well. I have learned things about my arm and hand position that I never would have figured out on my own. As a result I think I am playing much better and with fewer mistakes than I did on my own. For this first six months of this year I went it alone, without a teacher. Now I am correcting bad habits that I developed that I might have prevented.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 601
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 601
Quote
I'm an adult already and I just want to play piano for leisure


Quote
How necessary a piano teacher is?


Not necessary.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by Andy Platt
... for the things like juggling balls, consult with a teacher first.


I rather consult my wife with that one... laugh


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,281
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,281
Originally Posted by furelise17
I am wondering, how dangerous it is to learn piano without proper lessons by professional teacher?
Oh, quite dangerous! Please, do not try this at home without professional guidance. You don't know how many people have had their pianos explode right in front of them, just from pressing the keys incorrectly. laugh

Seriously, though, you will know if and when a teacher becomes necessary for you. Right now it doesn't sound as if you want one. But at some point, you may realize that you want to go further than what you can do on your own, or that you're not progressing as fast as you would like, that there are just some things that you aren't able to learn on your own, or that you need feedback on your technique or interpretation.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that teachers are only for people who are going to go through exams, compete, or go on to become professionals. There are many of us here who don't do any of those things, and yet a teacher has greatly enhanced our learning experience. (And they usually let us play music that we like!)

Also be sure to check out this thread from a while ago on What is a teacher going to teach me?


Mary Bee
Current mantra: Play outside the box.
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] XVI-XXXVI
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
furelise --

You simply need to ask yourself what your goal is. If you enjoy hanging out at the piano and fiddling around you don't need a teacher, and there's nothing wrong with this. BUT if you want to progress over a long stretch of time and move to more advanced material then yes a teacher is your best move. (A good teacher, that is.)

I've taught a LOT of adult students, and I can't think of any who were self-taught who didn't need some considerable technical reworking. But again, these are my goals, not yours.


Matt McLaughlin
piano - composition - theory
Austin, TX
Find me at:

McLaughlin School Piano Lessons
Piano Blog
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
pianomcl, what kinds of technical reworking do your self-taught adults typically need?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
PianoStudent -- it varies from student to student, but some common things you come across: Most students have learned poor habits concerning hand position such as a tight wrist, tense shoulders, or extraneous wrist/arm motions that make it really hard to play with any sort of precision or control.

Another thing you encounter quite frequently is students who don't know how to practice properly. No one ever made them slow down, practice in small sections, and concentrate on individual issues with tons of patient repetition. They try the "everything at once" approach and that can't go well. It's like someone walking into a gym and trying to bench press 500 pounds the first day. They get crushed under the weight.

Unfortunately, it's often the more bright and motivated students who develop these problems because they try to master pieces that they love but which are too difficult for their level. You can't blame them for loving the music but unfortunately doing more of the wrong thing becomes frustrating for them.

Last edited by pianomcl; 11/03/11 06:28 PM.

Matt McLaughlin
piano - composition - theory
Austin, TX
Find me at:

McLaughlin School Piano Lessons
Piano Blog
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 11
F
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
F
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 11
Since my last post a week ago, I started to have a second thought and think that after all I might really need a piano teacher ... a comment from a friend who is an advanced pianist about my bad technique, and most of the inputs for this post, made me starting to come to a good sense.

Originally Posted by FarmGirl

But I could not tell her how to fix those points and did not even know where to begin. I also did not want to hurt her feeling either. So I decided to warn her about tension in her shoulders etc to avoid potential injuries. After I told her to relax, somehow she got more tense. So I told her to get a teacher.


I think I got the same situation here. The thing that make me worry is, when my pianist friend told me what I should do, I totally understand the message, but I could not make that happened. I just didn't know how to, and she also didn't know how to make me. So I wonder if a real teacher would do better, probably with better approach and methods? Do they have some training or experiences to deal with a stubborn beginner with very poor technique, so they deserved to hold the title of piano teacher? Because at the moment I'm feeling very frustrated of not being able to transform what my friend told me to do into action, which made me think that no one else will ever be able to make me too frown

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 11
F
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
F
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by pianomcl

PianoStudent -- it varies from student to student, but some common things you come across: Most students have learned poor habits concerning hand position such as a tight wrist, tense shoulders, or extraneous wrist/arm motions that make it really hard to play with any sort of precision or control.


That sounds just like me frown

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
You might also think about how much and how often you're going to need teaching. I may get a few minutes of advice every few weeks or months, rather than a regular hour a week. And from a few different players, rather than a formal teacher.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by furelise17
Originally Posted by pianomcl

PianoStudent -- it varies from student to student, but some common things you come across: Most students have learned poor habits concerning hand position such as a tight wrist, tense shoulders, or extraneous wrist/arm motions that make it really hard to play with any sort of precision or control.


That sounds just like me frown


Don't despair! I have no idea what you are working on or your exact problems but I'd be willing to make a wager you are trying to play something too difficult. You can't simply "loosen up" and then suddenly everything works. You need to build this relaxation into your technique. Explain your situation to prospective teachers and ask if they have experience working with students like yourself. If you're stubborn, accept that fact and find someone who can overpower your will! You need someone who will take you back a few notches in the level of pieces you are playing and will teach you the details of a good technique.


Matt McLaughlin
piano - composition - theory
Austin, TX
Find me at:

McLaughlin School Piano Lessons
Piano Blog
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
B
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
Originally Posted by furelise17
I think I got the same situation here. The thing that make me worry is, when my pianist friend told me what I should do, I totally understand the message, but I could not make that happened. I just didn't know how to, and she also didn't know how to make me. So I wonder if a real teacher would do better, probably with better approach and methods? Do they have some training or experiences to deal with a stubborn beginner with very poor technique, so they deserved to hold the title of piano teacher? Because at the moment I'm feeling very frustrated of not being able to transform what my friend told me to do into action, which made me think that no one else will ever be able to make me too frown
There is a difference in great playing and great teaching. A good teacher's training and experience is important, but what is more important is their ability to communicate it to you. Since no 2 students are the same, a big skill to become an effective teacher is to explain things so that a student can understand it and apply it.

So yes, a teacher may have more tools to help you than your friend does. She has mastered it herself, but since you both are different, she may be explaining it to you the way she understands it, which could be different from the way you communicate.


-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 613
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 613
Originally Posted by furelise17
DO I PLAY IT RIGHT?


It's difficult to answer this question without seeing you play, so it might be helpful to hire a piano teacher.


"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,301
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,301
furelise,

One thing that has not been mentioned is that you have 8 years of lessons with a teacher on an organ.

The feel and action of organ keys is very different from that of a piano. The keys on an organ are much easier to press down than those of most pianos.

So my point is that you have 8 years with a teacher learning technique (hand/finger movement) on an instrument with very little touchweight, and now, with those habits in your memory banks, you are playing a piano that requires much more downforce to play.

That is very likely a contributing factor to your tension.

A good teacher skilled in technique training can help you.



Piano teacher.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,545
F

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013
2000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,545
Furelise - yep, a real teacher can do majic. When I re-started piano after 20 years, i noticed I was playing scales very tensely. The harder I worked the worse it got. On my first lesson, she fixed it right away. She told me to tuck my elbows in while playing 4 octave scales and play the entire scales as softly as possible (p not f or mf). I told her that i cannot play the keys away from me like that. Her answer, "can't you lean toward it a little?". Well, I discovered that tension was gone when I try to play the scale as softly as possible with elbows in. It was like magic.

From my notebook, I share with you further example of teaching that I currently receive. I hope it gives you a practical example for you. It goes like this:

1) Mesaures xxx, imagine the right hand (RH) arriving before the left hand (LH) when achieving togetherness
2) Line 4, eyes look ahead to nail the entrance of the LH. (well my LH was resting on my lap, so when I saw the LH note coming I hasitily moved my LH to the key and wound up banging the it)
3) Measures xxx, start the crescendo softer
4) Page x Line 3, correct pedaling. Lift pedal all the way up
5) Page xx line 5 bottom of key and middle of key on RH octaves
6) P4 inner voices Eb and Db too loud (basically killing the melody).

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Yes that's definitely correct. A teacher who has worked with hundreds of students will have a whole bag of "techniques" which will help you. Someone can be an incredible pianist but often not adept at transferring their skills to a student.


Matt McLaughlin
piano - composition - theory
Austin, TX
Find me at:

McLaughlin School Piano Lessons
Piano Blog
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 203
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 203
When I was looking for a teacher I called around and the moment that I spoke to her (my teacher) I knew that she was the one. Of course she is like an encyclopedia of knowledge, she never misses a detail in a song and is very thorough with her teaching. but what I found to be very important is how she understands and works with my personality and learning abilities (without going into detail I can be a quirky individual) A good teacher knows how to transfer their skills to anybodys learning abilities and I appreciate my teacher for that. Sometimes as students we hit a wall and a good teacher is there to find a way to help us get over that, a good teacher doesn't just teach by the book but they alter their teaching techiniques in a way to help each individual learn. This is why a teacher can be necessary.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798
Once you take lesson from a great teacher, you will find that you spend your time efficiently. It is ok to learn just to play the piece by yourself, but polishing a piece without a knowledgeable teacher is like learning a foreign language by yourself without any input from a native speaker. You may think you pronounce the word correctly.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 162
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by furelise17
Since my last post a week ago, I started to have a second thought and think that after all I might really need a piano teacher ... a comment from a friend who is an advanced pianist about my bad technique, and most of the inputs for this post...


I've had the experience of being both a live in the flesh real teacher in a local studio, and also an online music piano teacher. I know that sometimes you'll see that online sites will bash local teachers, but I really don't think that's a good idea.

My philosophy has always been that you can never learn too much, or from too many different perspectives. A lot of folks can go through self-paced learning programs like the online piano lesson sites, but if anyone's ever interested in also studying with a local piano teacher, I always encourage them to do that as well.

I've found that the very best musicians usually have the most well rounded musical background. They've done some self studying, they studied with some great teachers, they played a lot of solo work, they played in musical groups with other musicians etc

You can never learn too much, or from too many different perspectives!


David Sprunger - Learn to play piano by ear using the revolutionary technique of "Rhythmic Patterns". Piano Lessons Homepage here - includes library of piano lessons for beginners through advanced piano and keyboard players.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Thread for short questions.
by Josephine83 - 07/05/22 02:42 PM
Kawai Novus 10S New owner
by Ron A - 07/05/22 11:33 AM
Kurzweil k2700
by Ivan504 - 07/05/22 11:30 AM
Alan Belkin on musical salience - an aesthetic concept
by indigo_dave - 07/05/22 11:18 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,816
Posts3,205,649
Members105,729
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5