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Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177606
01/14/03 04:04 AM
01/14/03 04:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
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gprice  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Folks,

I've understood that Yamaha have released a new model grand (the GC1) which apparently contains "most" (?) of the features of the C1. Has anyone compared (played) these side by side and do they have any opinions on which is better.

I'm currently looking to buy and have size constraints (the C1 size is fine) but would like the "silent mode" also (which narrows my choice in terms of maker since a> I prefer the system built in from the factory for reliability / warranty and b> the choice of piano's / dealers in Geneva is not as great as that of the US).

Thanks for any comments on the GC1 model smile

Regards,

Gary.

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Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177607
01/14/03 09:51 AM
01/14/03 09:51 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Rich Galassini  Offline
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Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Hi Gary,

I spoke with Yamaha USA technical about this piano just to get a feel for the differences between the C1, GH1, and GC1.

The GC1 does not have a sostenuto pedal, and there are structural differences. The scale is better than the GH1, but not the same as the C1.

IMHO, the model is more of a fix to drooping sales of the GH1 than praise to the C1.

I say, buy the piano that you like best. Neither will fall apart in your home and they both sound decent, at least as new pianos in the showroom.

One last thing, no serious classical musician would buy a grand without a sostenuto pedal. This may give you a clue who Yamaha thinks will purchase the GC1.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177608
01/14/03 04:33 PM
01/14/03 04:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
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gprice  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Quote
Originally posted by Rich Galassini:
Hi Gary,

The GC1 does not have a sostenuto pedal, and there are structural differences. The scale is better than the GH1, but not the same as the C1.

One last thing, no serious classical musician would buy a grand without a sostenuto pedal. This may give you a clue who Yamaha thinks will purchase the GC1.
Thanks for the feedback smile

I can't believe the piano does not have a sostenuto pedal - wow, I thought only the cheapest grands and uprights lacked this pedal.

I guess I'll be going for the C1 ... (or, at least, not for the GC1 unless the sost. can be included as an option).

Thanks again,

Gary.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177609
01/14/03 06:04 PM
01/14/03 06:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,237
Louisiana
Jolly Offline
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Louisiana
Hi Gary,

What Rich said, of course, was true. And yes, the Yamaha C series are nice pianos.

But when you are talking about pianos in the 5'3" range, other pianos may deserve consideration. So it may behoove you to do a bit of comparison shopping. Unless, of course, you are totally sold on Yamaha, and then my suggestion is moot smile .


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Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177610
01/14/03 06:16 PM
01/14/03 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
Full Member
gprice  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Quote
Originally posted by Gary P.:
Quote
Originally posted by Rich Galassini:
[b]Hi Gary,

The GC1 does not have a sostenuto pedal, and there are structural differences. The scale is better than the GH1, but not the same as the C1.

Thanks for the feedback smile

I can't believe the piano does not have a sostenuto pedal - wow, I thought only the cheapest grands and uprights lacked this pedal.
Thanks again,

Gary.[/b]
Just to follow up, I just checked the Yamaha literature I picked up from the dealer (basically, lots of blurb and pictures saying how good things are) and on the back page, there is a list of the models and specifications. It says the GC1 is the same as the C1 in all things except "Lid Prop positions", "Lid edge", "Soft close Fallboard" and "Lid Fallboard locks". For all models (GA1 through CF111S), it says they have a middle "Sostenuto" pedal.

Apparently, the scaling is the same - Duplex Scaling and "Tone Collector" (hence the original question ... confused ).

Must be the structural points you mentioned - the difference in price is more than US$3000 eek Hmmm, as you say, I'll have to play them side by side to see if the changes affect the tone/playability etc..

Regards,

Gary.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177611
01/15/03 04:21 AM
01/15/03 04:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
Full Member
gprice  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Quote
Originally posted by Jolly:
Hi Gary,

What Rich said, of course, was true. And yes, the Yamaha C series are nice pianos.

But when you are talking about pianos in the 5'3" range, other pianos may deserve consideration. So it may behoove you to do a bit of comparison shopping. Unless, of course, you are totally sold on Yamaha, and then my suggestion is moot smile .
Completely agree on what you say. I'm basically limited by 3 things: size (my wife wants a decent dining table in the living area... go figure smile ), the desire for an acoustic piano but the need for a silent system and finally, the fact that I live in Geneva but speak little French (I'll have to manage with not only the dealer to buy but also with the techs in the future).

I'm only favouring Yamaha because it is the best fit taking into account the above criteria. While I was living in Thailand a few years ago, I hired a Yamaha C1 for the home which was a little "bright" for me but better than nothing at the time.

I personally prefer Bluthner or Boesendorfer because of the "mellowness" and light action(first 12 years of practice was on my Fathers Bluthner) but sometimes you have to compromise frown

However, I still have more dealers to visit and need to assess what hybrid pianos I can actually buy here and focus on those. The only dealer I have spoken to (well, my wife has spoken to) doesn't recommend a retrofit silent system - they tried it and had no end of problems with the system thereafter (don't have more specifics) ...

Regards,

Gary.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177612
01/15/03 11:08 PM
01/15/03 11:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 806
Melbourne, Florida USA
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member
TomtheTuner  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 806
Melbourne, Florida USA
The Middle sostuneto pedal means a fake or bass damper lift. that means the middle pedal lifts the bass dampers like on the average older vertical. I would buy the C1 unless the price of the GC1 is really a lot lower. like $5000 or so. I aggree with everything everybody has said. Its about time that yamaha fixed the stupid mistake they made on the tenor break scaling. good luck.....


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Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177613
01/16/03 06:03 PM
01/16/03 06:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
J
Josef Offline
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Josef  Offline
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J

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
I work for a Yamaha dealer and I have worked with these instruments. I have looked over the instruments and here are the differences and similarities. The GH1 is dicontinued, it has a bass sustain for the middle pedal and no duplex scaling, also no under felt on the hammer heads.It has a design flaw creating an twang sound in the notes at the break line between the tenor string and the bass strings. The GC1 has a less fancy cabinet infact it looksjust like the GH1 on the outside. No lock; it has a bass sustain for middle pedal. No underfelt on the hammerheads. It does have the same action as the C1, infact the GC1 action says C1 on it. Both GC1 and C1 have duplex scaling and what they call tone collecting system. The scale is very similar in GC1 and C1 and I even think that they may have the same scale.The scale has a much cleaner break line. C1 has underfelt on the hammerhead making it somewhat easier to voice.The C1 has a lock on the cabinet and a soft-fall fall board which is spring loaded to let the fallboard fall gracfully down and not slam shut. I hope that this gives you idea of the differences.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177614
01/17/03 03:30 AM
01/17/03 03:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
Full Member
gprice  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Quote
Originally posted by Josef:
I work for a Yamaha dealer and I have worked with these instruments. I have looked over the instruments and here are the differences and similarities.
No lock; it has a bass sustain for middle pedal.
C1 has underfelt on the hammerhead making it somewhat easier to voice.
I hope that this gives you idea of the differences.
Thanks for the feedback Josef (and the others also).

Josef - you mention the bass sustain on the GC1; does the C1 have a full sustain or it's the same?

Based on feedback, I'm now tending toward the C1 rather than the GC1 - particularly the comments on voicing since over time, I will try to get the technician to soften the tone and the underfelt will help this process.

Regards,

Gary.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177615
01/19/03 12:15 AM
01/19/03 12:15 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
J
Josef Offline
Full Member
Josef  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
Gary,
The right pedal works the same function on both pianos, full sustain. The C1 has had more time spent at the factory for fine regulating and voicing. You may some difficulty in having the piano voiced down. Yamahas are designed to be bright and too much voicing can make it sound like it is being smuthered with a pillow. I found that out the hard way.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177616
01/19/03 11:22 AM
01/19/03 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Josef,

They may have a more similar scale than the C-1 and GH-1, but according to Yamaha, they aren't the same scale.

Thanks for confirming the bass sustain pedal.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177617
01/19/03 11:04 PM
01/19/03 11:04 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
J
Josef Offline
Full Member
Josef  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
The GC1 and the C1 come very close in measurements that I have made when the first GC1 came in. They have the same break points and same style duplex scaling and measurements of the bass strings are almost the same. There will be small differences to lessen the cost of the GC1. When the opportuninty comes up, try these two models side by side and see what I mean.

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177618
03/21/03 08:22 AM
03/21/03 08:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1
N
ngjyang Offline
Junior Member
ngjyang  Offline
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N

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1
hi..
Basically, I think that the sostenuto or bass sustain pedal is seldom used in piano playing.. At least in classical music..and chances of you playing something that requires a true sostenuto/bass sustain (or Poor Man's Sostenuto as some might call it) is very low..

I also tried the C1 and GC1 side by side at a Yamaha showroom near me and I found that apart from the added features of the C1 (like slo-close fallboard, true sostenuto pedel etc), i find that there's absolutely no difference in the tone or the touch between the two models..except the price which is about few Ks.. The GC1 is a superb improvement over the GHs which sound very harsh..

So if you have the money to spare, i would recommend C1, if not, the GC1 would be a very good alternative to that.. hope this helps..

Re: Yamaha grand - GC1 vs. C1 #177619
03/21/03 11:20 AM
03/21/03 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
gprice Offline OP
Full Member
gprice  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 225
Kalamazoo, MI
Quote
Originally posted by ngjyang:
hi..
I also tried the C1 and GC1 side by side at a Yamaha showroom near me and I found that apart from the added features of the C1 (like slo-close fallboard, true sostenuto pedel etc), i find that there's absolutely no difference in the tone or the touch between the two models.

So if you have the money to spare, i would recommend C1, if not, the GC1 would be a very good alternative to that.. hope this helps..
It's very timely that this thread popped up again - I have been looking at various pianos over the last month or so but am really forced (family, house, neighbours etc.) to the silent system and understand that the Yamaha is the best one (I've heard various comments on retro-installation and tried one myself - it sounded like a toy piano!).

So ... I have the size template (floor mat) from my local dealer and will go either for a GC1S, C1S or C2S. Currently (despite the price), I'm favouring the C1S (the C2S is good also but imposed space considerations don't lend themselves to the C2S).

I played 2 C1's and a DC1(?) (a GC1 with Diskclavier system) again at lunchtime today when picking up the template. They have voiced one of the C1's very nicely - I was pleasantly surprised. The other C1 hadn't been voiced yet (it hadn't reached the showroom) and it clearly showed. I said to the dealer that I would be fussy on the voicing and wanted it voiced in my house to match the accoustics and my preference which (if I decided to buy) which he said was no problem.

Unlike my last visit to the dealer, I didn't touch the Bosey's, Fazioli's, Steinways and Grotians sitting alongside the Yamaha's. Doing that has put me off Yamaha before since I hear (and know) they are better (but a> they cost a lot more and b> there's this "silent" thing)...

So, based on comments here and my feeling, it looks like I'll be buying a C1S in the near future eek

Thanks for the feedback smile

Gary.


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