2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
48 registered members (dima5222, David B, Craig Hair, clothearednincompo, AndyOnThePiano, Brent Townshend, Chouca, David Boyce, Candywoman, 14 invisible), 411 guests, and 386 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Beginner needs advice on DP purchase #1769941 10/13/11 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 80
W
whitfit Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 80
Hello to the Piano World DP forum! I have been lurking here for a while, trying to answer some questions, and I thought I’d finally jump in and ask directly.

I am interested in purchasing a digital piano. I require some assistance primarily because I am new at this.

Background is that I am a new (mature) piano student. I have a music background, with many years of cello, guitar and some bass thrown in. I have been zooming through the beginner books very quickly (my musical background I think helps – partly because growing up playing the cello is very good for ear training, and partly because I know how to practice effectively and diligently). I am interested in playing about even split of classical and jazz.

I am taking lessons (on a Yamaha Grand), and am practicing on a Yamaha DGX535 “Portable Grand”. It is supposedly semi-weighted, but it is a very light touch. It does have 88 full size keys, and an acceptable (though not pleasing or good) piano sound.

I am finding it a bit frustrating, in that one of the things my teacher is working on is dynamics and touch. When I move onto the AP, I have a hard time adjusting to the weight (though, my playing isn’t demanding enough, and my fingers are strong enough that it is more a feel than a strength thing) and getting appropriate dynamics. At the same time, when practicing on my keyboard, I find that doing crescendos and altering dynamics does not work very easily, or give very good feedback.

So, I am considering a new DP in order to continue practicing and playing on. The reason for the DP instead of an AP is simply that I live in an apartment building, and it would be difficult to get a piano in to my apartment, and more importantly, I have had noise issues in the past.

Because I have such limited exposure to APs, and have little opportunity to get familiar with them (my 45 minutes a week of lessons don’t get me there), I don’t feel like I have the capacity to judge between the various keyboard actions, even if I go into the store to play them.

I would appreciate some advice/thoughts on three dimensions of this question:

1. Should I just use what I have now for a few more months until I have more of a grounding in technique and a better feel for what I would like?
2. What DP is best considering my criteria (which I will include below)?
3. If I do shop for DPs to get a sense of the feel, what should I do in the store?

With respect to question 1, from perusing the boards here, it seems like new stuff comes out in January or so. Should I consider waiting until I see what is introduced at that time? Am I being a diva, and I really should just go with what I have for a while, until my playing catches up with my desires?

With respect to question 2, my criteria in descending order of priority are:

1. Action – would like something that will be close to an AP (acknowledging that they vary), but that will also give the best training and ability to feel dynamics.
2. Piano sounds – I think that the pianos that are in my range would probably have good sounds. I have been considering the Rolands or Kawais, and I am not sure I could pick much between them at my stage of development.
3. Price – I have been drawn to the Roland FP-7F to Kawai MP10 range of prices (ie, $2-3,000). I would be very happy to spend less, and reluctant to spend more, unless the quality/price tradeoff is worth it. I think getting up to the $5-8,000 range seems a little bit too ambitious for a beginner, and noting how fast the technology changes.
4. Non-piano sounds – I would like on occasion to play an electric piano sound, but probably not a priority, more for future consideration (ie, if it doesn’t create issues with the other priorities I have).
5. Size/shape – I want something that is not too large. That is partly why I have been looking at the stage piano models (as well as they seem to offer good value compared to console types). I may build a cabinet for it – as someone who does woodworking it seems hard to stomach paying $300 for a crappy particle board stand, even if the time demand is low.
6. Versatility – this seems like a future proofing issue. Like, can it hook up to computers easily for using it with other piano sounds? It seems like this is probably not an issue, but I think at some point I might want to take advantage of better piano sounds as the software develops.
7. Out of the box usability – the FP-7F has speakers and a music rest. It seems a little silly to me that some models go without a music rest. I don’t mind starting out with built in speakers, but I feel that goes both ways – it is more convenient, but they probably suck, and I would be happy to add something on anyway in the future.

Ok – this post is long enough! However, if someone is going to give me a thoughtful reply, I know it helps to have a good understanding of the question. I know this from other forums I frequent, and it seems to me the members here are thoughtful and knowledgeable, so need good information to work with.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods, and more!
Re: Beginner needs advice on DP purchase [Re: whitfit] #1769969 10/13/11 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 21
J
Jamvector Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 21
We recently got a Kawai CA63 because my 16 yr old son wanted a true AP console, but if it were for myself, I would have been all over the FP7F. I have a very similar background to you, exchange cello for drums, more experience with guitars and bass - I grew up with an old Kimball upright, and have numerous digitals over the years; one of them the exact same Yamaha portable grand you mentioned, which I had gotten for my son 5 or 6 years ago when he started taking lessons. You need to move off that asap and into a real piano keyboard - you won't believe how quickly you will improve, and more importantly, how much more enjoyable it is.

My opinion on your first three dimensional questions are:
1. NO! Get a realistic AP feel now while you are developing your technique - ie, get your mechanics started correctly, you will avoid bad habits from practicing on an "organ" keyboard.
2. This I will leave for more experienced slab / stage piano experts to answer, but in my opinion, the Kawai's have great natural AP touch, feel, and action, Roland arguably the better SN (SuperNatural) sound sampling - and excellent touch (PHAII or PHAIII ) just maybe not quite as natural as AP, audio reproduction can be augmented later on via external amp/speakers/pa/headphones, etc. All have great sounds, and of course you can get anything imaginable when you connect to soft samples / pc. The other factor you neglected to mention is whether you intend to gig or play out with this DP; that of course changes things significantly.
3. Priority should be how well you like the feel of the keyboard action and playability. Everyone is different, and all the choices are very good today. You really want to be able to get expression from the piano - dynamics, response, tactile touch, etc.; this is what I think you should concentrate on when searching and playing in the stores. If you really like how an acoustic grand plays and feels, try to find a store where you can go back and forth between a quality AP and the DP you are testing, preferably multiple DP's as well at the some location. If they are in different stores, try to memorize all the variables observed before leaving. I found myself going back into the store on several occasions to try a few more tests. Also, if you have good headphones you like and are familiar with, bring them to the store. This is a great and consistent way to compare the sound sampling quality among all the different DP's you try out, and will remove the variability of different headsets you may find at the various stores (I was in one store where they intentionally had a crappy cheap set of headphones on the lower end models, and good sense's on the high end DP's to try to migrate you up to the higher margin units).

I think either of your proposed options fit well with your other criteria, though the FP7F is perhaps more portable, the FP4F even more so if you wanted to consider the next step down. I did not play the MP10, but liked the MP6 - very nice keyboard, but I think the FP7F is probably a better value - I was quoted $2300 on sale here last week.

Good luck on your search, let us know what you end up with!


Between the drums, guitars, and my CA63, I am in desperate need of more hands!
Re: Beginner needs advice on DP purchase [Re: whitfit] #1769970 10/13/11 02:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
C
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Originally Posted by whitfit
.
3. Price – I have been drawn to the Roland FP-7F to Kawai MP10 range of prices (ie, $2-3,000). I would be very happy to spend less, and reluctant to spend more, unless the


You picked some good DP's those are my choices if I had your budget.

If you want to look at a $1,000 piano try the Yamaha P155. That's what I have. It has a completely different key action from the '530 you've been using. No one would way the P155 is lightly weighted. The sound is a few steps better. Id say it is a better imitation of the same Yamaha acoustic grand.

The think with prices is that at each increment of quality the price doubles. No kidding. The entry level is about $500. That is what you are playing on now. The next jump is to $1K and then to the $2K pianos you say you liked. I thought the P155 was "good enough" and did not want to double the price to the next jump. If the purpose is just for learning and as a home practice piano I thing it's all I need. I don't thing the P155 is the best for session musicians to use in a studio or for performers on stage but very good for it's intended purpose

Re: Beginner needs advice on DP purchase [Re: whitfit] #1770123 10/13/11 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 80
W
whitfit Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 80
Thanks for the advice.

A couple of follow ups:

I had a lesson today, and had an opportunity to play a little bit longer on the grand piano I use for my lessons. Following my lesson, I went to a music store where I got a chance to play the RD700NX, FP7F, as well as the Yamaha CP1, CP5 and P155.

My impressions were that the Roland actions were the best of the lot, but the P155 was pretty close. However, I am relatively new to this and don't detect the subtleties.

However, they all seemed lighter than the AP I have my lessons on.

I really like the RD700NX, but must admit that I am not sure if I want to spend what would be around $3,100 (after tax and with relatively cheap speakers) to make that jump. The FP7F was $1899, with tax around $2100. And the FP7F has a music stand built in! (what is with the lack of them in the 700NX??!?!?!).

However, I am not sure where I could try an MP10 or a Kawai with similar action (I live in Toronto, if anyone has any tips). I get the sense that the MP10 has a bit of a heavier action, and might suit my desire for the piano feel better. If I am going to be spending $3,000, I think I want to get as much of that as possible.

Re: Beginner needs advice on DP purchase [Re: whitfit] #1770141 10/13/11 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 31
S
stealle Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 31
I am a beginner too, but I just thought I would throw in my .02

It's my understanding that not all grand pianos feel alike. Perhaps the AP use are using is just more firm than average. Also my understanding there is a break-in period for APs. Depending upon use, up to five years before the keys loosen up a bit. Perhaps the piano you are using during your lessons is somewhat new and firm.

FYI, I read a review that led me to believe the keys on the MP6 are more firm than the MP10. I'm new to this forum. I don't know is its against the rules to post external links. I'll have to read the rules and maybe return here to post the url for the review.

Re: Beginner needs advice on DP purchase [Re: whitfit] #1770157 10/13/11 10:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
R
rob.art Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by whitfit

My impressions were that the Roland actions were the best of the lot, but the P155 was pretty close. However, I am relatively new to this and don't detect the subtleties.


and you were absolutely right, the RD700NX has the best action on the market - escapement, ivory feel etc. Same action as 5k dollars V-Piano BTW. Yamaha is not too good on the action, next after roland is kawai with realistic action. If you're serious about playing piano get roland RD. I play RD700GX since few years and it's amazing.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Pianoforall
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
World Piano Day livestream
by Tyrone Slothrop - 03/28/20 12:42 PM
YouTube : DeutscheGrammophe
by Pianoperformance - 03/28/20 11:12 AM
Piano meetup pandemic recital
by KevinM - 03/28/20 11:06 AM
Stephen Hough and Covid 19
by gooddog - 03/28/20 09:54 AM
Rust spots on strings
by Deltajockey - 03/28/20 08:30 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,744
Posts2,939,650
Members96,385
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3