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Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1755129 09/19/11 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TADutchman
I am indeed working on a creative way to integrate both Hammer Strike and Hammer Fallback into Realtime Acoustic Noise...


Wow, that would be awesome... will it be compatible with the MP10? wink

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Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1755155 09/19/11 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Before going into detail: have you already played your CA63 with a pair of high-end headphones? ...as opposed to using the built-in speaker system...


Yes, i did. I use AKG K171MkII Headphones, and it is not supposed to be the worst sounding on the market. I also tried to use MAUDIO AV40 Studio monitors but in both cases i'm not pleased with the sound i get.

I tried a few of you dual voices piano patches and i must say that it improves a lot the standard single-voice piano patches. So perhaps i won't throw my CA63 through my window (too heavy anyway!).
By the way, i wonder why KAWAI does not use dual-voice for the main Piano patch ? -Concert Grand- It is supposed to deliver the best sound the instrument can play).

I have got a few questions:

- since i did not find my dream one (but until now i only tried five of your patches over 150+) does one of your patches give something close to the MP10 "Concert Grand 1" or "Pop piano 1" thant can be heard from the demo at http://kawai.de/mp10_de.htm ?

- is there a way of storing more than 8 patches ? (i suppose there is not)

- If you have got a "process" in creating your patches (i suppose you don't tweak the parameters randomly but who knows)i would be pleased to read about it. I read some posts here where you gave some tips about it.

Thanks a lot for your work and sharing it, anyway.

Last edited by Lblues; 09/19/11 07:47 AM.

Hardware: KAWAI CA-63/Vintage Roland D-10/Alesis Photon 25/EMU 404
VSTis: Acoustica Pianissimo/Modartt Pianoteq/Artvista Virtual Grand Piano
Host: Chainer and Forte
Software arranger: One man band 8, Livestyler
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Lblues] #1755442 09/19/11 04:11 PM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Just a compact reply this time (my daughter of almost 7 weeks old needs attention): I don't know what your dream patch would be like exactly, but you could for example try:

Kawai Concert Artist
Red Piano
Take the Ex To The Max
The Way It Is
Classical Piano Collection Direct
Clavinova Home Improvement
Trilogy Part 1 - Jazz
Trilogy Part 2 - Pop

And here's a simple improvisation of mine, using the more mellow but percussive sounding
Trilogy Part 3 - Classical preset:

[Linked Image]
Romantic Phantasy

Enjoy! smile

P.S. Please note that compared to e.g. normalised USB recordings, live playing my CA93 sounds warmer and more acoustic (I may do a multi-mike recording some time to prove it).


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Lblues] #1755785 09/20/11 03:05 AM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Lblues
I tried a few of your dual voices piano patches and i must say that it improves a lot the standard single-voice piano patches... By the way, i wonder why KAWAI does not use dual-voice for the main Piano patch ? -Concert Grand- It is supposed to deliver the best sound the instrument can play).
Hear hear, my point exactly. shocked

Originally Posted by Lblues
- since i did not find my dream one (but until now i only tried five of your patches over 150+) does one of your patches give something close to the MP10 "Concert Grand 1" or "Pop piano 1" thant can be heard from the demo at http://kawai.de/mp10_de.htm ?
I find it difficult to compare using PC speakers. Next to the above given examples, you could check out the comments that go with almost all presets in this thread, the reviews of other CA93/CA63 owners and some of the sample recordings.

Or what about this brandnew preset, mixing the essence of Concert Grand and Pop Piano for a contemporary sound:

POP GRAND IN CONCERT R1.0

Dual Voice: Concert Grand/Studio Grand, volume 6 + Pop Piano, volume 4

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +1, mid +4, high +5

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 8
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: Normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Normal

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Room 2 / Stage

Effect: Delay 2, time 1, depth 1


Originally Posted by Lblues

- is there a way of storing more than 8 patches ? (i suppose there is not)
Well, there is one more, the user memory, so that brings the total to only 9 frown

Originally Posted by Lblues
- If you have got a "process" in creating your patches (i suppose you don't tweak the parameters randomly but who knows)i would be pleased to read about it. I read some posts here where you gave some tips about it.
Well, a CA93/CA63 random preset generator by Pinipon can be found somewhere in this thread. grin wink
I work with timbre matching by ear, so the settings are just parameters that follow in a fuzzy logic kind of way. Here's a PDF reference paper:
Enhancing the default settings of Kawai CA63 and CA93 digital piano

Originally Posted by Lblues

Thanks a lot for your work and sharing it, anyway.
You're welcome! thumb

Last edited by TADutchman; 09/22/11 03:25 AM. Reason: Reference paper added

K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1758366 09/24/11 09:02 AM
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One more for the Hints & Tips category: if you like a preset but feel there's a slight something missing, try adjusting the volume slider typically in the range 4 - 5.5

I.m.h.o. not only the volume is adjusted, but according to my ears, there's a hidden multiband compressor and/or dynamic equalizer that enters the equation as well and can change the timbre and dynamics of especially dual voice layered presets quite dramatically.

Please note that volume adjustments have no effect on USB recordings at all and that the effects are quite different when you compare playing with speakers (+soundboard in case of CA93) and using headphones.


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1759601 09/26/11 11:49 AM
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Who the .... is misusing my CA93 photograph for commercial purposes? I did not give permission for that! mad

http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/kawai-ca93-digital-piano--ca93-digital-piano-by-kawai

Clicking on the picture even leads directly to the Kawai US website: stop it or pay for the photo to acquire copyrights! (no right to copy) tiki

For reference, here's the original post containing the picture, following upon a request by Kawai James:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1475998.html#Post1475998


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1759735 09/26/11 03:08 PM
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Ah that's the Internet for you. Gave me a laugh, sorry. smile Guess you can start with Kaboodle if you're seriously annoyed.

Actually I'm curious now, how did you find it? Hidden watermark or easter egg thingy or just stumbled over it.

Last edited by spanishbuddha; 09/26/11 03:11 PM.
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: spanishbuddha] #1759806 09/26/11 04:20 PM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Actually I'm curious now, how did you find it?
Sixth sense wink


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1759890 09/26/11 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by Lblues
...does one of your patches give something close to the MP10 "Concert Grand 1" or "Pop piano 1" thant can be heard from the demo at http://kawai.de/mp10_de.htm ?
I find it difficult to compare using PC speakers.

Okay, therefore I changed my strategy today: I first downloaded the MP3 demo onto my USB stick and used my CA93 for playback and comparison in order to come up with this resembling patch (comments are welcome): cool


CONCERT GRAND 1 FLY BY R1.0

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 6 + Studio Grand, volume 4

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low -1, mid +4, high -1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: bright 1 / bright 2
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 5
2 - 3 String resonance: 7
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: Normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Normal

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 8

Reverb: Stage

Effect: none

Last edited by TADutchman; 09/27/11 04:40 PM. Reason: voicing added

K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1759927 09/26/11 07:46 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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TADutchman, I don't believe Kawai America has any involvement in that page or Kaboodle.com. I expect 'brettmacdonald' set up the entry in order to receive affiliate/sponsor clicks-thrus. That's just the way the internet is these days, unfortunately.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Kawai James] #1759961 09/26/11 09:02 PM
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Hello,

Thanks a lot, TADutchman for you answers to my quest for a favorite sound . I appreciated you Paper ("Enhancing..."), specially the scientific publication style. I almost missed it because i read your post before you add it smile.

I'm currently reading all the "custom settings" thread and testing all the patches you published (with a few other guys). The list made by ripe_md is very handy (a spreasheet version would be coool). My preference goes actually to "Pure Analog style-closed". I'm going to give a try to your CONCERT GRAND 1 FLY BY R1.0 right away.

Concerning the global question of ear+sound=????? I agree it is very difficult to compare the readl sound from a DP, with a recording, and i understand your microphone direct recording instead of USB.

I am surprised that any DP or VSti sounds so different from one people to the other. Some praise Pianoteq (or others VStis), others say it sounds awful (in addition to each one's personal taste, they obviously don't use the same amplification). I seem to be the only one finding the CA 63 original Grand really painful to ear. My ears seem to need a good checkup!

I had the same idea as one of the posters here, i tried a multi-layer piano sound, mixing my (currently) favorite TADutch Dual Pach with A Pianoteq sound (I even tried to add another VSti: Pianissimo+Pianoteq+TAD CA563 Dual). It was just for fun and the result was... interesting. A bit like a too powerful perfume.

PS. You're a celebrity, i was recently crawling youtube in search of anything related to the CA 63 and i was happy to find a recording using a dual-voice setting. And the guy was using of of yours!


Hardware: KAWAI CA-63/Vintage Roland D-10/Alesis Photon 25/EMU 404
VSTis: Acoustica Pianissimo/Modartt Pianoteq/Artvista Virtual Grand Piano
Host: Chainer and Forte
Software arranger: One man band 8, Livestyler
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Lblues] #1760454 09/27/11 02:14 PM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Lblues
I'm currently reading all the "custom settings" thread and testing all the patches you published (with a few other guys). The list made by ripe_md is very handy (a spreasheet version would be coool). My preference goes actually to "Pure Analog style-closed". I'm going to give a try to your CONCERT GRAND 1 FLY BY R1.0 right away.

Excellent: do let us know your personal top 10! And by the way, as indicated before in this thread, don't forget to check out custom touch curves for optimising the overall piano action and sound experience after having selected some presets ... cool


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: safari70] #1763197 10/02/11 03:28 AM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by safari70
Originally Posted by TADutchman
I am indeed working on a creative way to integrate both Hammer Strike and Hammer Fallback into Realtime Acoustic Noise...


Wow, that would be awesome... will it be compatible with the MP10? wink

Quite a late response of mine, but HwyStar indicated some time ago that the first beta (with half pedalling noise only), which I sent to him, didn't work with his MP10, and here is (probably) why:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...alf%20pedal%20midi%20ev.html#Post1762119


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1767330 10/09/11 02:45 PM
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Hi All: New forum member stopping in to express my humble gratitude for TADutchman and all other contributors to this discussion. I am best at drums, pretty good guitar player, long time self-taught hack piano rocker. My younger son (16) is actually a very good piano player, taking lessons for about 6 years, and I finally got him setup on a CA63 after a long and thorough quest. He / we have tried all the Rolands, Yamahas, Casios and Kawais, but he loved the Kawai action and feel the best, which is ultimately what we based our decision on, but the Roland sounds on the 305/307/FP7F were definitely better (Yamaha and Casio just weren't in the same class IMO).

But, thanks to you guys, we have improved the sound significantly with the published patch list. Starting to work through it, will update the thread with our faves as we progress.

Thanks again!


Between the drums, guitars, and my CA63, I am in desperate need of more hands!
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Jamvector] #1769338 10/12/11 04:17 PM
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Jam: By all means, come back to disclose what you have settled on. I have been working on the sound for a few months now and have come to the conclusion that nothing works for me. I would like to know if my taste is unique or is it something I just haven't worked hard enough at. If you find something you like I would like to try it.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: dmd] #1769353 10/12/11 04:37 PM
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TADutchman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dmd
I would like to know if my taste is unique...

Well, sorry to hear, I don't know whether it's unique, but at least taken from earlier experiments, your taste does seem to be somewhat further away from real acoustic piano timbres, I mean like typical noticable resonances etc...


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1769439 10/12/11 06:56 PM
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It is strange. My happiness with my sound seems to change .. or my sound is changing without any modifications on my part.

For example, right now I am playing with factory default settings and it sounds just fine to me.... even nice. Of course, I am playing simple tunes with very little harmony ... classical or simple slow gospel. It sounds great.

However, I may find when I play this stuff later that the sound is not acceptable. At least that is how I seem to be experiencing it.

Right now, I am running my external sound through the PHONES jack and out through 2 Yamaha HS80M powered monitors. That seems to help remove what I describe as the "tinny" (or thin) sound and mellow it out a bit.

So, anyway, I keep trying for a sound I like because I hear others proclaiming their love for this piano.

It is a very nice DP in every other way (in my opinion, of course).


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: dmd] #1770310 10/14/11 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dmd
It is strange. My happiness with my sound seems to change .. or my sound is changing without any modifications on my part.


It is strange... that I feel something similar. I believe that my touch is very poor, and sometimes I am not able of getting a decent sound. Or perhaps the touch curve is a little difficult to master. Lower notes tend to a very resonant response easily.

Last edited by Brometeo; 10/14/11 06:46 AM.

Kawai CA97
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Brometeo] #1770528 10/14/11 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brometeo
...I believe that my touch is very poor, and sometimes I am not able of getting a decent sound. Or perhaps the touch curve is a little difficult to master. Lower notes tend to a very resonant response easily.

Okay, if that's the case then it should be relatively easy to fix: just start using Custom Touch! Please note that you may need some trial-and-error before yielding your own 'perfect' touch (and because brilliance is affected at the same time, you may need different touch curves depending on the preset used). whistle


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman] #1770628 10/14/11 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TADutchman

Okay, if that's the case then it should be relatively easy to fix: just start using Custom Touch! Please note that you may need some trial-and-error before yielding your own 'perfect' touch (and because brilliance is affected at the same time, you may need different touch curves depending on the preset used). whistle


I am a very bad piano interpreter, in the way of enhancing my skill. First I'll try to control default touch curve better. Then, when I have a solid touch, I'll configure to my delight.

But thank you for your ideas smile


Kawai CA97
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