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#1762119 - 09/30/11 06:08 AM Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
minimammut Offline
Junior Member
minimammut  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Tilburg, The Netherlands
Hi, some days ago it finally arrived and I really enjoy playing again!
However, experimenting with some software pianos I noticed strange pedal sounds when using half pedal. Therefore I looked at the midi events generated by the pedal and they do look strange: (pressing and releasing the damper pedal somewhat slowly)
Quote
11:58:00.325 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 20
11:58:00.339 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.349 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 20
11:58:00.363 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.419 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 50
11:58:00.433 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.437 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 15
11:58:00.451 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 58
11:58:00.453 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 50
11:58:00.467 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.499 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 15
11:58:00.513 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.523 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 34
11:58:00.537 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.551 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 31
11:58:00.565 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:00.575 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 15
11:58:00.590 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 40
11:58:00.595 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 47
11:58:00.605 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 54
11:58:00.609 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 58
11:58:00.623 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 63
11:58:00.627 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 67
11:58:00.653 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 71
11:58:00.667 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 79
11:58:00.671 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 83
11:58:00.685 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 89
11:58:00.687 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 95
11:58:00.701 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 103
11:58:00.703 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 111
11:58:00.717 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
11:58:01.237 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 111
11:58:01.251 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 79
11:58:01.253 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 71
11:58:01.267 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 47
11:58:01.269 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 44
11:58:01.283 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 58
11:58:01.288 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 15
11:58:01.301 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:01.303 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 29
11:58:01.317 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:01.335 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 40
11:58:01.349 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:01.365 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 50
11:58:01.379 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:01.399 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 17
11:58:01.413 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
11:58:01.425 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 31
11:58:01.439 From USB-MIDI Control 1 Hold Pedal 0

I think all those zeros are causing the problem. Looks like I'm 90 and my feet is trembling but as I'm just 19 I don't really think so wink
Any ideas how I could make Kontakt or the piano smoothen it? (I'm on a mac) Or might it be a hardware problem?

Last edited by minimammut; 09/30/11 06:09 AM.
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#1762128 - 09/30/11 06:25 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Hamamatsu, Japan
minimammut, that looks a little strange - I don't believe those 0s should be there.

I'll ask one of the MP engineers to check this on Monday.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1762411 - 09/30/11 03:09 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
minimammut Offline
Junior Member
minimammut  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Tilburg, The Netherlands
thanks for your efforts, very much appreciated!

#1762612 - 09/30/11 11:15 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 377
HwyStar Offline
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HwyStar  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 377
Reno Nevada
That's James for you. He always goes the extra mile!

On a side note... I send a challenge out to all of the other manufacturers to give us a rep that is always active here... I know Roland and Korg have their forums/reps but it would be nice to get info here from the other companies as well...

We "are" Piano World...



Kawai MP11, iMac 2015, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 5, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA
The Kawai Digital Piano Users Forum
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#1762629 - 09/30/11 11:43 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Hamamatsu, Japan
HwyStar, please note that I contribute to this forum under my own steam, not because my employers ask me to do so. I enjoy reading through the posts as much as anyone else, and have learned a great deal about consumers' likes and dislikes, which in turn benefits my own work.

I find it extremely rewarding to help folks out, regardless of the manufacturer of piano they play. And while it's true that I'm perhaps more active in topics about Kawai instruments, this is simply because I'm rather knowledgeable about the models being discussed. wink

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1763126 - 10/01/11 11:26 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 377
HwyStar Offline
Full Member
HwyStar  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 377
Reno Nevada
Sorry James... I didn't mean to imply in my post that your posts in anyway are directly influenced by your employer. You are always giving us an honest assessment of what you think the users of this forum need to succeed with any piano, from any manufacturer. It is a difficult line that you must walk and we appreciate you taking the time to help us.

I would really like to hear from other companies and their employees. That's all. They have knowledge they can share with us and it helps us make decisions.

It can also be used as a great portal of "direct" communication between clients and manufacturing, which is good! Retailers many times drop the ball and don't always communicate what their clients really want.

Sorry Man! smile


Kawai MP11, iMac 2015, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 5, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA
The Kawai Digital Piano Users Forum
#1763221 - 10/02/11 06:00 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member
hpeterh  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
minimammut,

I would recommend to check other continuous controllers also, e.g. the pitchbend.
If these have a similar problem, then there is a technical problem inside the piano, maybe instable reference voltage.

If only the pedal has the problem then it could be inside the pedal. Also try if the effect happens if you move the cables near to the plug and near to the pedal or turn around the plug and put it in and out repeatedly.
You could also clean the plug with a rubber gum there might be oxide or skin fat on the metal.

Possibly this helps to solve or to trackdown the problem.
Best,

Peter


1929 Galaxy Bl├╝thner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6

#1763843 - 10/03/11 09:55 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
minimammut Offline
Junior Member
minimammut  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Tilburg, The Netherlands
Hi,
pitch bend and mod work beautifully. Tried moving and cleaning the plug but to no avail...
While I was cleaning it the main screwed on plug came of and I saw that it's quite flimsy on the inside of that huge plug... Screwed it back on and same as before...

Last edited by minimammut; 10/03/11 09:56 AM.
#1764337 - 10/04/11 03:14 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Hamamatsu, Japan
minimammut, may I ask you to confirm if you have adjusted any MIDI related settings on the MP10, such as assigning CC#64 (hold pedal) to another controller (pedal, wheel, knob, etc.)?

Can you perhaps check the MIDI output using a different tool (ideally a MidiOX-like programme for OS X...)?

If the pedal is still not transmitting smooth continuous data, I wonder if perhaps the pedal unit itself is faulty. Is there any opportunity for you to try a different F-20 or F-10H unit?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1764343 - 10/04/11 03:34 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,520
CyberGene Online content
1000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,520
Sofia, Bulgaria
I've just made the same test on my CA-63 and here is what I got on the CC64:

15 31 47 63 79 95 111 127 111 95 79 63 47 31 15 0

It seems there are 8 predefined values, i.e. the pedal is not continuously generating all the values between 0-127. I see in your test there are much more different values generated. Of course that could be because of improved pedal unit in comparison to CA63 but could also be a result of some MIDI settings on the piano?


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#1764351 - 10/04/11 04:08 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Hamamatsu, Japan
CyberGene,

The CA63 damper pedal has 8-steps.
I believe the MP10 has more.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1764754 - 10/04/11 07:14 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Beco Offline
Full Member
Beco  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Brazil
Hi James,

Do you know if the limitations of these 8 steps from ca63 is because of the hardware (pedal or mainboard) or by software?

Thanks for your attention,

Best regards smile


Kawai CA63
Yamaha CLP 300
#1764790 - 10/04/11 08:15 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,178
Hamamatsu, Japan
Beco, I'm afraid I don't know, sorry.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1765773 - 10/06/11 11:21 AM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: minimammut]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Beco Offline
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Beco  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Brazil
Ok, James

thank you anyway.

Best regards

Beco smile


Kawai CA63
Yamaha CLP 300
#1793986 - 11/22/11 02:22 PM Re: Kawai MP-10 half pedal midi events [Re: Kawai James]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17
kohonen Offline
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kohonen  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17
the mp10 has definitely a lot more levels than 8. this is what i've found:
127, 111, 103, 95, 89, 83, 79, 71, 67, 63, 58, 54, 50, 47, 44, 40, 37, 34, 31, 29, 26, 23, 20, 17, 15, 0


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