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Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! #1747748
09/06/11 09:06 PM
09/06/11 09:06 PM
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violily Offline OP
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Hello all,

I've just joined these forums, so apologies if I do something wrong smile The point of this thread is self-explanatory - I would like to learn a Beethoven sonata, since I've only played Moonlight (many years ago and probably badly) and op. 14 no. 2, which I was bored with and didn't really polish. My ultimate goal is to play op. 109/110, but I know I need more experience before I get there. I would like a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. My favorite sonatas (not including the most difficult ones) are:

op. 10 no. 3
op. 26
op. 27 no. 1
op. 78 (but I don't really want more F# major...)
op. 81a
op. 90 (my teacher advised against this sonata because of the alberti bass in 10ths, but...)

Others that I like enough to play, though not as much as the above:

op. 22
op. 28
op. 31 no. 2 (though I would rather play something less popular)
op. 31 no. 3

I'm open to suggestions outside these lists, but I would rather choose from them if possible... To get an idea of my playing level, the Schubert D. 664 videos here http://www.youtube.com/user/lilly763?feature=mhee are probably the most representative, though even they are more than a year old and I could probably play D. 664 with more ease now. I'm currently working on the Bach C minor partita, Chopin's Barcarolle, and Kabalevsky's Third Sonata, though I think I'll be putting the Bach away for now.

Thanks!

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1747754
09/06/11 09:14 PM
09/06/11 09:14 PM
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I vote for 27/1 and 28.

And beautiful Schubert, by the way!


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1747790
09/06/11 10:17 PM
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I wonder why you ask people to pick a piece for you.
I can understand if you are preparing for, say, a competition.
Asking others will have value so that you will have better strategy. But I really do not see the reason to ask others if the purpose is just for your own enjoyment. At the end of the, you will decide anyway.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: RonaldSteinway] #1747803
09/06/11 10:42 PM
09/06/11 10:42 PM
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violily Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
I vote for 27/1 and 28.

And beautiful Schubert, by the way!


Thank you!

Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
I wonder why you ask people to pick a piece for you.
I can understand if you are preparing for, say, a competition.
Asking others will have value so that you will have better strategy. But I really do not see the reason to ask others if the purpose is just for your own enjoyment. At the end of the, you will decide anyway.


Yes, it is true that I will decide eventually, but I'm not equipped to make the best informed decision without advice. If I were proficient enough that I could basically play any sonata I wanted, then I wouldn't ask, but I'm a student and I think it is natural for me to seek input about what sonatas might be best for my development at this point.

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1747846
09/06/11 11:59 PM
09/06/11 11:59 PM
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If your main goal is to get to Op 109/110 (fairly quickly, I presume) then I agree with Kreisler.

But a cursory listen to your Schubert has made me curious as to what you might accomplish with serious study of Op 10 #3 (esp the 2nd mvmnt), Op 26, or Op 31 #3.


Last edited by Gerard12; 09/07/11 12:07 AM.

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1747852
09/07/11 12:10 AM
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Lilly: I join Kreisler in saying how nice the Schubert is! It's one of my favorite pieces. You have a lot of very nice touches in it. The main fault is just that the piano needed a good tuning. ha

Considering how well you play, IMO you should just pick whichever of those Beethoven sonatas you most feel like playing. As simple as that.
Period. smile

In fact, IMO you'd be making a little mistake to choose on any other basis. Your greater love for the piece will (IMO) outweigh anything else in making the sonata be better for you, for any purpose.

Originally Posted by violily
....I'm not equipped to make the best informed decision without advice. If I were proficient enough that I could basically play any sonata I wanted....

I really have no idea what you mean. You play well enough to tackle any of the sonatas on your top list, possibly with the exception of the last two (Op. 81a and 90) but maybe without any exceptions.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1747943
09/07/11 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
...possibly with the exception of... but maybe without ...


Geez. You must have one helll of a time picking out socks every morning.




"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: stores] #1747954
09/07/11 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Mark_C
...possibly with the exception of... but maybe without ...

Geez. You must have one helll of a time picking out socks every morning.

Maybe! grin
But it seems you sometimes go out of your way to give people a hard time! ha

If you have a better way of saying that you're pretty sure a person is capable of all those sonatas except two and that you think there's even quite a good chance about those other two also, let us know. If not, I will look for a retraction, and if it is not given, it will be implied anyway. whome

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748055
09/07/11 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by violily
My ultimate goal is to play op. 109/110


Damn, and here I was about to recommend you to play the Hammerklavier. ha


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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748080
09/07/11 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Lilly: I join Kreisler in saying how nice the Schubert is! It's one of my favorite pieces. You have a lot of very nice touches in it. The main fault is just that the piano needed a good tuning. ha

Considering how well you play, IMO you should just pick whichever of those Beethoven sonatas you most feel like playing. As simple as that.
Period. smile

In fact, IMO you'd be making a little mistake to choose on any other basis. Your greater love for the piece will (IMO) outweigh anything else in making the sonata be better for you, for any purpose.
...
I really have no idea what you mean. You play well enough to tackle any of the sonatas on your top list, possibly with the exception of the last two (Op. 81a and 90) but maybe without any exceptions.


Thanks! That Schubert sonata is one of my favorites too smile I guess you're right that I should just choose myself... but for some reason I always feel like I need affirmation from others that I actually *can* play something before I decide to work on it. I guess I'm old/advanced enough that I should be past that, but there you go... also, in this case, there are so many appealing choices that I wouldn't know how to choose which I like the most! But I think I've narrowed it down to either op. 27 no. 1 or op. 10 no. 3. Out of curiosity, which of these two sonatas would be more suitable for an audition? The audition I'm thinking of is quite a long shot and I'm not very invested in it, but I might as well keep it in mind.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748106
09/07/11 10:18 AM
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Op 2 No 3 is a great sonata you can learn a lot from.


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748229
09/07/11 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by violily
....I think I've narrowed it down to either op. 27 no. 1 or op. 10 no. 3. Out of curiosity, which of these two sonatas would be more suitable for an audition?....

Either. smile

People might express preference for one or the other (and I think most people can't resist that), but there's no significant difference. They'll both equally show basically who you are and what you can do. If I was in a total toss-up between the two, I'd probably do 27/1 because it's less-played, which to me is a plus. But both are equally fine.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748287
09/07/11 02:16 PM
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violily :

While this thread is about choosing a Beethoven Sonata, I have two comments to make on the Schubert, both concerning tempo/timing issues.

In the opening phrases, you sometimes - but not always - double-dot the dotted eighth-note, thus making the following sixteenth-note sound something close to a thirty-second note. I think that this harms the flow and cantabile character that the melody requires and that you otherwise maintain.

Second point : When you get to measure 20, where the basic rhythmic pattern becomes triplet eighth-notes to the beat, you considerably speed up your tempo; I can't see any justification for changing the tempo at this point.

As for the Beethoven, have you looked at Op 10, No. 1, a sufficiently dramatic early C minor Sonata with a lovely Adagio movement?

Regards,


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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: BruceD] #1748299
09/07/11 02:33 PM
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violily Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BruceD
violily :

While this thread is about choosing a Beethoven Sonata, I have two comments to make on the Schubert, both concerning tempo/timing issues.

In the opening phrases, you sometimes - but not always - double-dot the dotted eighth-note, thus making the following sixteenth-note sound something close to a thirty-second note. I think that this harms the flow and cantabile character that the melody requires and that you otherwise maintain.

Second point : When you get to measure 20, where the basic rhythmic pattern becomes triplet eighth-notes to the beat, you considerably speed up your tempo; I can't see any justification for changing the tempo at this point.

As for the Beethoven, have you looked at Op 10, No. 1, a sufficiently dramatic early C minor Sonata with a lovely Adagio movement?

Regards,


Thanks for the comments smile Both of the points you mention are valid, especially the random rushing of the triplet section. I have since put away that sonata (those videos were posted last November, and probably recorded even earlier than that), but when I revive it I'll try not to fall into the same habits. As for op. 10 no. 1, though it does have its moments, to me it doesn't stand up to comparison with other similar C minor sonatas like the Pathetique or Mozart K. 457, so if I wanted something of that sort I would prefer one of the latter two.

Last edited by violily; 09/07/11 02:33 PM.
Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748315
09/07/11 02:54 PM
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Yeah...I was being naughty.....You are so fast!!

That is why I erased. But to be honest, I do not ask people what piece I should play. I determine myself what I want and can play.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: RonaldSteinway] #1748316
09/07/11 02:55 PM
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....thereby rendering my post superfluous, so now that's gone completely. smile

I'm also not a big fan of people choosing based on what others tell them. In fact, I don't understand that more people don't seem to place more of a premium on just picking what they love most, especially when it's from among such similar kinds of pieces.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748328
09/07/11 03:08 PM
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With Youtube, it is so easy to listen to pieces that we want to learn.
I listen to the prospective pieces, if they do not touch me or if I cannot connect emotionally, I won't play. I think it is a torture to practice something that we have no interest.

If people can play Chopin Bacarolle, he or she should have had enough knowledge to choose what he or she likes. It is baffling to know that it is not the case. On top of that, why the process of picking a piece becomes a big production that involved many people. To me, it is my taste. Unless one is a concert pianist, he or she needs to pay attention what audiences love to hear.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748348
09/07/11 03:56 PM
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Alright, alright, point taken! I won't ask this type of question again. But to be honest, I don't know anyone among my peers, mostly students much more advanced than I am, who completely chooses their own pieces. Most people have significant input from others, and I know a few very good musicians whose teachers disregard their students' opinions entirely. I personally don't see Beethoven sonatas as being "similar kinds of pieces" (I wouldn't even say that about Mozart's, which have comparatively less variety) or why it's unreasonable for someone indecisive who hasn't played everything to look for advice as to which sonatas might be most rewarding for them. Not all the pieces I've enjoyed playing have been ones I loved listening to "the most" from the start (though I did usually like them), and though I wasn't necessarily excited when I started them in hindsight I'm glad my teacher suggested them to me.

Last edited by violily; 09/07/11 03:58 PM.
Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748397
09/07/11 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by violily
Alright, alright, point taken! I won't ask this type of question again. But to be honest, I don't know anyone among my peers, mostly students much more advanced than I am, who completely chooses their own pieces. Most people have significant input from others, and I know a few very good musicians whose teachers disregard their students' opinions entirely. I personally don't see Beethoven sonatas as being "similar kinds of pieces" (I wouldn't even say that about Mozart's, which have comparatively less variety) or why it's unreasonable for someone indecisive who hasn't played everything to look for advice as to which sonatas might be most rewarding for them. Not all the pieces I've enjoyed playing have been ones I loved listening to "the most" from the start (though I did usually like them), and though I wasn't necessarily excited when I started them in hindsight I'm glad my teacher suggested them to me.


I feel that sometimes people go a bit overboard on this forum when saying "don't ask what we think, you pick for yourself!" It is a bit hard for us to tell on the internet compared to if we knew you in real life, but I understand how easy it is to just ask here for people's input.

Maybe what you could do is ask for some insight about the sonatas you listed from people here who have played them? For example, I could talk to you a little about the Op. 22 that you mentioned, because I have played it.

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748428
09/07/11 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Mark_C
...possibly with the exception of... but maybe without ...

Geez. You must have one helll of a time picking out socks every morning.

Maybe! grin
But it seems you sometimes go out of your way to give people a hard time! ha

If you have a better way of saying that you're pretty sure a person is capable of all those sonatas except two and that you think there's even quite a good chance about those other two also, let us know. If not, I will look for a retraction, and if it is not given, it will be implied anyway. whome


I don't go out of my way to give anyone a hard time, Mark.

I wasn't implying that I'm sure any person is capable of all those sonatas except two, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. I was simply saying that you must have a lot of difficulty picking out socks every morning. No retraction necessary.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: stores] #1748592
09/07/11 11:32 PM
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Looks like you didn't grasp one or the other of those 2 posts of mine, because what you just said was off the mark.

Hence, implied retraction accepted. grin

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748595
09/07/11 11:37 PM
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So you don't have difficulty picking your socks out each morning? Because I sure do!

But seriously... Funny story (okay, maybe not "but seriously"): Yesterday, I was wearing one red sock and one green sock. A friend came up to me and pointed that out. I said to her, "Yes, and I have another pair just like this one!"

Last edited by Orange Soda King; 09/07/11 11:45 PM.
Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Orange Soda King] #1748601
09/07/11 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
So you don't have difficulty picking your socks out each morning? Because I sure do!

Hey, I didn't say no, I only said maybe! grin
Anyway, Stores may have been onto something. I was actually once heard to say that matching socks after doing the laundry was the most painful experience I had ever had. ha

Quote
Funny story... Yesterday, I was wearing one red sock and one green sock. A friend came up to me and pointed that out. I said to her, "Yes, and I have another pair just like this one!"

C'mon, that's not a true story. ha

BTW, did I ever tell ya, one night I shot an elephant in my pajamas.....

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748607
09/07/11 11:52 PM
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I once noticed I had a black and a blue sock on. However, the blue sock was dark blue and almost looked black... ha

Fun with socks!



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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748610
09/07/11 11:53 PM
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That IS a true story!!! Well, minus the "yesterday" part, but I HAVE done that multiple times, just to make that joke. wink

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: violily] #1748612
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Keep your feet warm when pedaling in the winter! laugh

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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Orange Soda King] #1748615
09/07/11 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
That IS a true story!!! Well, minus the "yesterday" part, but I HAVE done that multiple times, just to make that joke. wink

You're kidding!!

Anyway I think you've told us everything we've always wanted to know about socks but were afraid to ask. grin


(arcane reference to popular book from the '60's)

Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
I once noticed I had a black and a blue sock on. However, the blue sock was dark blue and almost looked black... ha

That's exactly the hardest part about matching socks. smile


BTW, we better get it back to the Beethoven sonatas or else this thread isn't long for the world.....c'mon Lilly, help us out.... ha

Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748657
09/08/11 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
[...]
BTW, did I ever tell ya, one night I shot an elephant in my pajamas.....


What in the world was an elephant doing in your pajamas? smile


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Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: Mark_C] #1748659
09/08/11 02:22 AM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by Mark_C
(arcane reference to popular book from the '60's)

I cheated. I googled.


Jason
Re: Pick a Beethoven sonata for me! [Re: BruceD] #1748660
09/08/11 02:24 AM
09/08/11 02:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
L
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
liszt85  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Mark_C
[...]
BTW, did I ever tell ya, one night I shot an elephant in my pajamas.....


What in the world was an elephant doing in your pajamas? smile


It wasn't a whole elephant. It was just the trunk. laugh


Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)
Page 1 of 2 1 2

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