Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Verituner for iphone...

Dave Carpenter rolled out his new software release at the convention. It now works on the iphone, the ipad and the ipod touch (4th generation) He hasn't updated the website yet but you can contact him via the website if you are interested.

I've been a beta-tester, so if you have any questions, ask away!

Ron Koval

Hi Ron:
Any comments on the Verituner for iPhone? I see that it is now available, and at an introductory price.

I have used Tunelab for years, and have generally been happy with it. But a friend loaned me his extra VT-100 last week, and I've really liked the tunings. At this point, the tunings with VT take me longer, mostly because I've been doing double passes, one course and one fine. To be honest, I wish I could blend Tunelab and Verituner. I like the display of Tunelab better. Especially the spectrum display which lets you see individual strings. But the VT does produce very smooth tunings, and I may well go that direction.

I'm curious about the iPhone version, because for the price difference between that and the pocket PC version, I can justify buying an Ipod Touch. I have no interest in an iphone or ipad. I do already have an iPac 211 that I use almost exclusively as a tuning device. But, if history is any indication, I usually only get a couple years out of Pocket PC before it dies and I need a new one. So, it's about that time...

What kind of battery life could be expected out of an ipod running VT?

I started the program running on a fully-charged ipod and it ran non-stop for a little over 6 hours...

I like that the Verituner display has both the needle and the spinner as options. The new platform does show both the clock and battery icon, which I like.

Note switching seems to work better than the ppc or box, especially in the top octave.

Since the apple platforms are so adept at graphics, there isn't any lag as was sometimes the case with the ppc as the program was calculating and trying to display the spinner.

Ron Koval

Ok. That's good. So it was still running after 6 hrs, or that was as long as it lasted? I've often been putting in more like 12 hr days, not 6.

It does seem that there is lag time on the box. I would have to wait for it a little. So it's good to hear that the ipod version is quicker.

I'm tempted to get the ipod, but am getting "device fatigue". I now have a cell phone, a Blackberry, a Blackberry Playbook, and a Pocket PC. Sometimes I'm carrying all four. The PPC does mostly stay in my tuning case. It seems a little excessive to get one more thing. I use them all for different reasons, but...

One more question. The iPaq lays nicely one the piano keys, or pins, etc. Rubbery back. Is the ipod more splippery, etc? My kids have them, and don't they have metal backs? There are probably covers available I suppose.

iPod/iPhone have gel covers that you can get, that give it a rubbery back. I don't use Verituner but have had Tunelab on my iPhone for about a year now. Like Ron, I can go a day of practice room tunings (usually 6 tunings) on a charge, no problem. By that time, I'm down to about 20% battery, but that's also with checking email, texts, phone calls, and of course posting on PianoWorld.

Whoa, $599....

You may want to consider running the Verituner on a netbook computer. I have been using a netbook version for about 9 months now, since my VT100 got damaged (another story). The color display is easier to read with the needle and the spinner. I bought a Acer netbook for $229 Canadian dollars.My netbook has 6 cell battery pack and I can go 2 days before I have to recharge. In spite of the larger footprint I haven't run into any pianos where I didn't have a place for the computer to sit.

Thanks Wayne. The battery life of the netbook sounds attractive. That's a big thing I like about the iPaq 211...good battery life. I generally like the device, and my current setup. I usually only have to charge it every few days running Tunelab, since I tune aurally also. Or, at the end of a very long day. I bought an extended battery, but don't usually use it because it makes the device more bulky. I could put that in though. The Verituner would probably use alot more juice than Tunelab, since it's measuring more, and using multiple partials. At any rate, I probably won't buy a netbook. If I don't buy the ipod, I would just get the Pocket PC version,since I already have one.

The gamble for me, I guess, is how long I think that the current Pocket PC will last. In the past, they've only lasted a couple of years. But then, there was usually a drop involved. I was using the Pocket PC for the calendar and database functions then, and handling it more. Eventually, something bad would happen. The last one had a bad charge port, and it was going to be over $200 to get it repaired. So I just bought the latest version.

Loren, if you think $599 is bad, look at the price of the netbook and pocket pc versions. For the $300 difference, I was thinking that I could just purchase an ipod touch. And have a new device. Is it expensive? It depends on how you think about it. If you are doing 6 tunings a day, at $100 a tuning, you would pay for it with a day's work. That's not such a hefty toll for something with improves the sound of every tuning you do. And maybe you can justify charging more?

I was comparing it to Tunelab for $299.

When I looked at the description, I notice a screen that lists "Stretch Points", with intervals being assigned certain weights. What are these adjustments, and how many can be assingned for tuning?

Also, when using unequal temperaments, does the program compute an ET tuning curve, and then apply the temperament offsets to that curve, or does it use these "stretch points", based on where the notes were actually tuned (if that question makes sense. Basically, does it try to achieve what was trying to be accomplished a few months ago on Tunelab with EBVT III).

Also, what information is stored in a saved tuning file, and can it be easily viewed to examine what went right (or wrong) with a tuning?

Just a few questions. I probably won't be purchasing one soon, but I would like to.

Thanks!

Hi Ron

It is my first time I am on this forum, hi to all.

Do you have any experiences tuning an Erard grand Piano from 1858? I bought the iphone version of the Verituner and I want to tune this grand piano with my new software. Should I add any additional stretch in the average mode?

What are your favorite settings for upright pianos? Or can you give me some more general tipps using the Verituner?

Thank you for your experiences with the Verituner!

Toni

(Sorry for some mistakes in my English)

Grüezi Toni,

just use the standard settings as a starting point: average stetch and equal temperament. Later you may want to toy around with other settings, e.g. clean stretch for very small uprights.

Gregor

The stretch points refer to the aural and machine traditions of matching partials. For example if you wanted the A3-A4 octave to be a perfect 4:2 octave, you'd instruct the machine to do that in the custom style menu - something like this:

A3-A4 4:2 0.0 100%

The 0.0 represents beats.

In reality, most people like to have that octave just a little wide of a 4:2 octave, so the verituner, as well as other machines specify it like this:

A3/4 4:2 0.3 100% This uses the beat as a "fudge factor" to guestimate just how much wider than pure the piano wants to be set.

Now the really cool and new thing that the Verituner is able to do because it is measuring so much stuff on just about every note is to balance between intervals, leaving out the fudge factor. The 6:3 octave is usually wider than the 4:2, so for example you could represent the above with:

A3/4 4:2 0.0 50% / 6:3 0.0 50%

This way you let the piano determine how to balance between different intervals - octaves, doubles, triples, octave +fifth... The percentages are user customized...

I think I was the first to play with the custom styles and there are a bunch documented on the Verituner forum. Both generalized approaches and specific styles for particular brands/models of piano.

As for your second question, the temperament is a simple overlay, but the request is out for the the intervals to be responsive to the temperament so that the octave +5th will take into consideration the differing size of the 5ths in the custom styles. This may lead to a slight tempering of the octaves if so desired...

Ron Koval

Thank you!

Hi and "guten Tag" Gregor

Thanks for your help and your tipps. I'll try it out.

Regards Toni

I purchased Iphone/Ipad Verituner the other day. I am using it on my Ipad.

Inputting Bill's EBVT III figures for my M&H BB, the results are great! The piano sounds incredible. Of course, EBVT 3 helps. I would like to post a few recordings, but I need to get Ari's Classical West hammers shaped and voiced before I record. This is all happening without using the Verituner's tuning software to calculate a tuning.

It's a breeze to tune with. The spinner is not confused in the first 2 octaves, and the resulting bass sound is simply remarkable. In the 6th,7th octaves, and C8, the spinner continues to give me a very usable reading! . Also, the software is so sensitive and quick, I can actually see with ease, when the pitch flats or sharps after the initial strike of the string, so any hammer movement shows up very quickly, which in turn helps me to tune more accurately. I also love the large display on the Ipad.

I am going to use it to tune a few friends pianos, and will post my experience with it. I will use the Verituner's calculation/tuning software for those.

More to come........

Hey GP, congrats on your new "toy"!

The Verituner has three built in styles - Clean, Average and Expanded. Those can be altered with the + and - function that stretches or contracts the curve a bit...

The key (with any of the machines really) is to find a tuning calculation so that a ladder of octaves please your ears before you start tuning the rest. For the best first calculation, you might want use a mute and play single strings into the machine from about A2-A5. It should take you less than 5 minutes. Then tune/listen to the octaves. Go ahead and start with the A's, but you might want to change that for smaller instruments... Just like a unison, listen for the quiet placement. Octaves on most instruments allow for a little bit of "wiggle room", where they may not be perfectly still, but still ok. Use that to find the best placement for the doubles, triples and quads. Start with the machine calculation. Then slightly move the octave sharp, flat and back to see if the calculation is "in the pocket". If it matches, then the calculation should work for that instrument, if not, adjust the style to make the stretch fit the piano. The result will be a more musical tuning.

Average is good, better than just about any of the other gear out there, but to really dip into the power that is in the machine, take a look at the Custom style function. If you go on the Vertuner forum, you can find out more information there.

Ron Koval

You guys are now making me salivate!!!

I do have an iPhone, but i use tunelab on a dedicated smartphone, not connected to the cellular net work.

Verituner and an iPad is close to 1500 dollars right?

Soon, I hope, I will be able to comment as well and am certainly interested in hearing your what you have to say! Thanks

I use Verituner for 4 years now, but I didn´t know that the stretch style can be altered with the + and - function I will toy around a little bit with that. The idea sounds good: tuning all the A´s first and listen to all the octaves and then altering the stretch style until my ears are pleased.

Gregor

Regarding pricing of the Verituner app for iPhone, it is priced now at $600 (an introductory price). A new 4th generation iPod touch can be bought for well under $300.

Regarding Ron's comments about custom styles for the Verituner this is what he hasn't said:

Ron has been working on developing custom styles since the Verituner was released 10 years ago. The result is a set of custom styles and a procedure for making the best match of style and piano, which he has generously shared. Based on his experience, he lists specific models and categories of pianos for a number of pianos tells what style he has found to be best. For others, his procedure can be used to make the match.

Verituner users, registered on the Verituner forum, can learn more on this thread:

Questions, Answers, Problems > Style Cornucopia

Highly recommended for users who want to explore optimizing Verituner tunings!

David Bauguess