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I've just played the Hanons accenting every 4th note rather than every 2nd note. You're so right, it really helped the swing.

For the tunes, did you accent one in every 8 eighth-notes ?
Is the rule like "Accent any of the eighth-notes you want, as long as you then accent that same beat in every measure" ?

Here is the score to my Leafy Tones.

http://www.box.net/files/0/f/40625354#/files/0/f/40625354/1/f_425103802

that link doesn't work for me...

me neither

Oooooops ! I forgot to share it. Here it is.

http://www.box.net/shared/odq74rosss

now that I see, I look at it a little differently.

The first thing is that I like how you mix short and long phrases. you have some nice long line in B and C.
You do a few other things
- You play tones in uncommon places. For example, your first line ends on the 9th, which is ok, if that's what you're trying to do, but 3 and 7 will provide less tension. Same on that Ebmaj7, ending on the #4 is ok, but tense. Experiment with those, but realize that 1 and 5 are very solid places to end, 3 and 7 next.
Likewise, in B, when you start by playing the 4th on Cm7 on beat 1, that's uncommon. PLaying chord tones will make it sound more stable. Again, a matter a choice and taste. If you can hear all those things, that's great. If not, be sure to hear the chord tones first.
- You use a good mix of scales vs arpeggios, that's nice. Though, when you lay out a G-7 argeggio over A-7b5, that is again uncommon. You just want to be aware of it.
- The last thing I see is large leaps. The 2nd line of the B section. Leaps are ok, but they give a scattered effect. So if you use them a lot, it's break the feel of flow. You want your lines to visually look like Mountains and Hills, rather than cliffs. Guys like Eric Dolphy use lots of leaps. In fact, I think Dave is doing a master class on Dolphy next week, we'll see what he has to say about it.

here's my one. I will scan my scribble too but please note that I am not good at writing music.

http://www.box.net/shared/z195ofzm3y

Your critique is very much appreciated Knots.

I wish I could take credit for the long and the short phrases but I used Dave’s rhythm. In my next composition over Leaf Line, I’m going to do my own phrasing.

Tones in uncommon places
Some were intended e.g. the first phrase ending on 9 was to produce an “elevated” effect (per the Frank Zappa masterclass !). But a lot of my ending tones were accidental e.g. ending with the Lydian on the Ebmaj7 produced a happy effect, but as you correctly pointed out, it’s too tense.

I didn’t think about the type of note with which I started on Beat 1. From now on, as well as looking at the way I end, I will make sure that I’m aware of how I start the first beat.

Arpeggios/scales which don’t match the chord
You’re right, the Gmin arpeggios over Amin7 look weird. I used it because:
- firstly the whole line was in Gmin, hence I could use the Bb, and
- secondly, the next measure was in D7, hence I could anticipate it with the F#.

Shape of phrases
Wow, I hadn’t thought of subjecting a tune to a topographical assessment. I’d like to aim for your “mountains and hills” landscape next time. When I look at your Yves’ Tune (btw I really like that title), it’s much smoother than mine.

I’m really looking forward to the Eric Dolphy masterclass.

Many thanks Knotty.

Hey Simon
Cool one !
Don't you love how everyone on JOI sings/hums. Yours was melodic and easy to sing along to.
I really liked your long phrase of eighth notes at the end of Section A. It had a nice feel.
Thanks for posting.

Thank you so much for commenting. I am sure knotty will find lots of room for improvement but its a start. I liked yours too. It sounded great. How did you manage to notate your score so well. I am struggeling to write music. Almost like a chore to me

Simon
Thank you for the compliment about my tune.
I don't know why you think you can't improvise. Having a melodic sense is the beginning of improv and yours sounded melodic enough to my ears.
Did you write out the notes for your right hand melody ?
I forgot whether you said you have a classical background or can read music ?

I kind of did write out the notes but my handwriting is aweful. I also never know whether the connecting lines between the 8th notes need to be underneath or above the notes.

I can read music but I am still quite slow at it. Played a little bit of classical music when I was a child. I then stopped for almost a decade. Now I play chords in church and obviouisly try to learn jazz with Joy of Improv

Regarding the Improv, Dave Frank has given me the confidence that I can also learn how to do it. The problem is mainly that my teacher just gives me these hard things to do that are above my ability. Singing and composing melodies without getting caught up with the left hand is what i want to focus on now

Your teacher sounds like my former jazz teacher. A great performer but a hopeless teacher. These guys just make you feel bad. The more they show you how good they are, the worse you feel. As you said, they just expect you to work it all out yourself.

I remember on about my third lesson, he gave me a long series of really hard chords with #5 everywhere and said “Improvise.” I tried to do an Art Tatum and he said “You are so far away from where you need to be ” !
Now I think it’s so funny and I keep on laughing about my sad lessons but he made me really stressed at the time.

Luckily he changed my lesson time and it clashed with my tennis.
Why are you persevering with your teacher ? Aren't you wasting your money on him ?
Anyway I'm really pleased you're persevering with this fun game called jazz improv.

I love the JOI approach. One learns good tunes which really helps improve one's sense of melody.

Don't worry about the connecting lines being up or down.
But get the note values right e.g. quarter note, or 8th note.
Then we will know what you mean.

Saiman,

that would be helpful if you could post that page. If you don't write music very well, then this will teach you. In the meantime, you'll learn how to read. Basic note reading is essential. And it's not that hard. You might want to spend a few hours studying this if you don't understand quarter vs eight notes.

That said, I think you get the gist of it. I notice lines of varying lengths, which is good. You can try even longer lines, but you have a nice mix there.
Also you start your lines alternating between 1, 1& and 2. That's a good mix too, you can experiment with all those beats.

Again, if you post the sheet, it will be easier to watch while I listen. It will stick in my head longer that way.

Both of you obviously got the point of the exercise, so that's great. After you've done about 20 of those, you will see improvisation in a completely new way. For one, you will have encountered a variety of progression, and you would have already beaten them once.

Here's the 2 composition I did some time back:
http://jazzitup-knot.blogspot.com/2009/04/swing-me-to-sleep.html


About teachers Saiman, one thing you'd notice if you took a lesson with Dave, is what when he plays something for you, it's something that you CAN play. Today. Not in 5 years. It's how he wants you to play today. If you want to be dazzled, get a CD. If you want to understand the concept you need to work on next week, listen to him play at the lesson.
Dave has taught at Berklee for over 15 years. I'm pretty sure he's seen all sorts of young musicians. That's the kind of experience you want, The guy who teaches at universities.

thank you for your feedback knotty. So can Custard and I now move over to the next composition on Unit 2? I am really enjoying this way of learning.

yes of course!
After you finished one composition, you can move on to the next. I used to do typically one every other week, whatever speed works for you is good.
Evidently you're also doing the Hanons, tunes, chords and singing with solo, so that should keep you fairly busy.
Also, you don't have to do all the exercises from the same lesson at the same time. Sometimes, I like to keep a Hanons an extra week, or stay on it for just one week. That's ok. That's all good.
For info, I think I only started the compositions after I was on lesson 10 or so. I started improv when I got to lesson 25 or so.

After you finish a few compositions, we can start some simple improv and see.
I'm afraid it might become very difficult for me to provide useful feedback at that point, because we'll all be at the same level. But I'm sure we can get something out if it.

haha dont worry knotty, I dont think I will overtake you anytime soon. I listend to some of the stuff on your blog. Its awesome.

I will keep working through the pieces on a quicker pace but additionally do a composition on all the previous pieces. I dont specifically stick to the solos from the list, as I dont have youtube at work but I listen to a lot of stuff like Ella and try to sing with her.

Thanks Saiman, that's a nice thing to say.

Don't worry so much about pace or whatever. You should have plenty to do, and so long as you're enjoying the process, you have it made.

Take care.

just as we were talking about feeling in 4s, I was looking at these Hal Galper videos. He demonstrates the feeling in 4s towards the 2nd half.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NehOx1JsuT4&feature=channel