Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kronos is out!

Getting a little impatient over here so I called my guy today. He relayed to me what the Korg rep just told him-- unless you pre-ordered a 73/88 (I didn't) , you're looking at MAYBE Sept. or Oct. till they get somewhat caught up. He said there are only a hundred units coming into the US every month while there are hundreds of back orders.

I guess my joking remark about touching one around Halloween wasn't too far off the mark. Maybe I'll push that back to Thanksgiving now...

Well FINALLY got to play the K88 at the GC in Hollyweird today.

In a nutshell--it's not for me. Very disappointing since I've been waiting 7.5 months to check it out, listening to every demo on youtube and reading a zillion posts on how it's the greatest thing. Maybe it is for many people that are more into synths, organ, rhodes and drum sounds then AP substitutes.

For me at this point in my musical journey, all of the aforementioned sounds, not to mention the genres of music that utilizes all of this stuff are simply not on my musical radar anymore.

I guess I'm more a purist or a dinosaur, however you want to look at it but I'm simply only interested in playing the piano in more of an Acoustic based style such as Jazz, light Classical or sub-genres of those styles.

The Kronos piano did sound very good but again that musical connection, that's hard to verbalize (at least for me), just was simply not there , even on the Dark German Grand. Forget that Japanese Grand--that about tore my head/ears off through the my AKG 240 phones. I guess it's somewhat related to their RH3 action but to tell the truth, I briefly went over to an SV-1 88 and as crazy as this might sound-actually dug the playing experience more. So go figure.

The K piano had a hard edged, harsh quality to it while playing even though it sounded really big and super hi-fi in the phones. I'm certain it will sound killer in more aggressive R&B, Rock and Fusion settings in the band while playing live--but again, I must be really mellowing in my older age as it wasn't my thing.

I kept playing the K88 and then rotating between the CP5, 700 & 300 NX, Nord Stage 2 88 (first time playing that), SV-1 88 , P155, MOX8 and S90XS. Again for pure piano playing experience they all smoked the Kronos imo.

Every time I played the CP5, it was like my inner musical voice was saying--yes, this is right, this is home base, this is me. The CP5 had more of an Acoustic vibe to it where the Kronos had more of an electronic, in your face kinda sound. I had the same reaction getting on the 700NX which was right next to the K88-the flagship Roland was just more expressive and had that more Acoustic/organic feeling as opposed to maybe a too cutting edge sound (?) of the Korg. Again this stuff is hard for me to verbalize folks. I'm not a writer but a player. But I do know instantly (most of the time ) if something's right or wrong for me.

For rhodes folks, this your ax ! I've owned 3 in my life and this is as close as it gets. For me, it's simply--ok great rhodes, who cares...

So for the average keyboard player guy reading this, the reaction is probably--aw this guy's nuts, what's he talkin' about ! But maybe for pianists who do more of what I do, they can relate.

I had high hopes for the K88 or 73 has an alternative to always bringing the CP5. Maybe if they dumb it down to an SV-2 I could see it would be cool to have--but as is, too much stuff I won't use and more importantly--don't wanna have to use. I simply just want to play the piano....

So where do I turn ? Maybe the Nord Piano again. I'll definitely have lower expectations going in. I'll be looking at it more from a portability stand point then an expressive instrument where I can play and sound at my best.

Interesting post Dave, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Cheers,
James
x

Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grown to prefer my SN piano sounds.

Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!

I'm developing a theory about the way us "electronic" guys keep changing our minds about their gear. I might start a new thread about it in the next few days.

Great pianos and EPs in a workstation. That hasn't really changed. I always knew the action wasn't great and thought build quality sucked from the beginning. But, the action has started to annoy me and the GUI and tactile interface make woking with it irritating.
It's hard to judge those things until you have some time with it.

I don't know that I change my mind that much regarding my gear. I think in the case of the Kronos, buying the Jupiter and a robust Mac setup highlighted some of the Kronos' shortcomings, but I was concerned with the action and build quality when I bought it.

Also, I'm really an acoustic guy.

I'll buy it off you for half price...

Very interesting observations....

As has often been demonstrated with sample libraries - despite a trillion gigabytes, you still have to relate to it on some sort of level (a really instinctive, emotional level) that doesn't seem all that dependent on the specs actually. I relate to the Nord better than I did to the Roland SN - whilst accepting that SN is significantly superior in some technical aspects. Now the AG suits me even better because the Nord gives you all it's got too easily - certainly not a criticism of the sounds, more perhaps the velocity curve and/or the keys.

The Kronos is out for me due to the key action and just the fact it does so much more than I could ever want. The Nord is a really nicely focused 'board - nothing unnecessary about it - but I might have to go out and get some real quality time in on an MP10 and CP5 some day. I've previously been a critic of Yamaha but really getting into the AG and a CP33 I currently also own has made me appreciate what Yamaha does much more than I ever did before (AG and CP33 are completely different by the way, but both are satisfying to connect with).

It's a shame there is a level of disappointment with the Kronos because for a while it looked like it might be the answer for a lot of folks - no doubt it is for some of course but it goes to prove once again that gigabytes do not necessarily make for a better experience.

Steve

Steve, I'll be honest with you, having hooked up the NP88 to the N1, not just the Electro which doesn't have the details in the piano voices of the NP88 like string/sympathetic resonance, there is nothing left in the DP world that will impress me. I've got the best action available in any DP, and IMHO the most organic, playable, and varied acoustic piano sounds available in a DP. Like you said, the search is over. I've played all the major players, Kronos included, and everything else seems to get bland after a while. Never the case with the NP88, and if I get tired of playing the N1, then I'd be tired of playing an acoustic, because that thing is a real joy to play.

I actually just took my NP88 to a gig yesterday, and it was the first time I've played on it in 3 weeks, outside of hooking it up to the N1, and I was having so much fun. I look at it differently now, and I actually quite enjoyed the action, and the killer piano sounds. I've NEVER received the compliments from FOH guys before like I do with the NP88. It's a unique instrument in an otherwise seemingly bland field of players. This is no discredit to the MP10, RD-700NX, CP5, SV-1, Kronos, etc., it's just they're all improved versions of what's already been here. The NP88 seems to have brought something refreshing with Nord's approach to building a stage piano.

I'm going to have to try NP with AG controlling it...due to my living arrangements I can't link them up permanently...but for an occasional play I'll probably get away with it! And no doubt I'll share your enthusiasm for the combination.

Steve

In all of these more sophisticated boards, buying them is something of a leap of faith. It takes many hours, days, if not weeks of auditioning, tinkering, and using it for different purposes, to fully get a handle on what works for you and what doesn't. That's one of the nice things about buying from a place that has a 30-60 day return policy.

I like my Kronos. Not as much as I hoped/expected to, but enough to keep it. I'm not using it for piano, though. I agree with Dave about the superiority of all those Yamaha boards, and probably the Roland (at least the 700) and Nord, when it comes to strictly piano playing, whether because of sound, action, or both. I'm keeping the Kronos primarily for its organ and sample loading functions. I do agree its EP sounds are great, too. I might get into some of its VA capabilities, I really haven't played with that at all yet. And I do like the Set List functionality.

I had a chance to play the K88 yet again today at the GC in Sherman Oaks after a short recording session. I did like it a bit more then the other day--enough to want to remove the adjective *harsh* from my post. It's not harsh, just...maybe lackluster ? Not the German Grand sample, that is without question excellent. I'm speaking of the sound to action connection and the expressibility for me. Again I went over to a nearby 700nx, CP5 and MOX8 for comparison and again in all cases, for a straight piano playing connection, I would opt for the CP5, 700NX and MoX8--in that order.

And also again, fwiw and imo.

I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.




[/quote]

You have to pound the living daylights out of the AG (in my case, an N2) to hit velocity 127. It's scary how hard you have to hit the keys -- ffff, I would say. (Think NBA basketball slam dunk or Jerry Lee Lewis heel on the keyboard.) I have found that, in using Ivory, I generally have to set the top of the velocity curve at about 112, which increases the slope of a nearly linear "curve," in order to get a realistic response.

By contrast, you get to 127 pretty easily on a Roland RD-700NX. I'm not a big pounder of the piano, so it's fine with me that the Roland doesn't go to fff.

I would guess that Yamaha AG N2 velocity-110 equals Roland RD-700NX velocity-127.

You are correct in everything you said over there Hideki. They are being a little sensitive. Most of them are keyboard players. You are both a keyboard player and a pianist.

I played a 61 this weekend and yes the screen blows. Not doubt about that. My big fingers would not like that screen. My Triton was much better than that. I couldn't hear myself in GC to really listen to the Kronos so I gave up.

No worries Man!

If you get a chance to try the N1 with the Ivory Steinway or Ivory Fazioli, you may like that a lot too. I've never played a Nord, but when I A/B the AG internal samples against the Ivory Steinway (controlled with the AG), the contrast is dramatic and strongly favors Ivory. It is, however, very important to get the velocity curve set correctly. These days I cap the velocity at 112 and increase the "hardness" of the curve to 5 or 10 percent. And the buffer needs to be dropped from the default 512 to 256.

I know there are a lot of AG lovers on this forum, but for me that machine is primarily a MIDI controller these days (and a truly great one, mind you). Ivory and the Roland RD-700NX have more satisfying and less artificial AP sound.

But no matter how you look at it the sound of the Kronos is excellent Dave IMHO .The weird "vibe" of the Kronos when playing AP is to do with the action and connection and its a issue that isn't as bad with the SV-1 possibly because of the superior sounds in the Kronos. The action is a poor AP substitute rather then trying to be a great action that isn't directly trying to mimic a AP (like the CP1/5 which is a GREAT action ...graded or not). I must admit the build quality issues and the action bring the Kronos down but the EP/AP/Organs ans Synth engines do sound fantastic. It's not a board I'd use to replace say a XF8 because it doesn't "feel" great but it sure sounds great. We can't have everything I guess.

That is quite simply a DISGRACE !!!!!

Like I said today DP


I agree 110% the sound is special. But like I said in my first post, it's not special enough for me, being more of a pianist , doing more acoustic type gigs, to warrant laying out $3500 on synth/organ/etc features that have no relevance to my preference to try to stay out of the pop/R&R/RnB world. For the latter applications, it's arguably the best thing going right now, no question.

I also agree we can't have everything...

Build quality aside... Here are some new youtube posts of the Kronos AP only. German and Japanese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkIEXLxp0w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrzlzlQcdo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2t5j9vGu9A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k97hcPUVv4&feature=related

Maybe I should get myself a 61 and drive the board with my MP10...