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I wonder if any of you have had an opportunity to compare the keyboard action of the Nord Piano and the Nord Stage 2 HA88 ?

north

I have, and to me they feel just ever-so-slightly different. Almost like the Stage 2 action is very subtly compromised for better synth/organ action whereas the Nord Piano, being a dedicated Piano, has an action that is slightly better for piano playing. Also, the Stage 2 has Aftertouch which may be the reason for the different feel. We're talking a small, yet discernible difference. Could just be me though.

it would be critical to know how the velocity response is set up for the two boards, and how much flexibility YOU have to change it.

i've played neither, so i probably shouldn't comment but i want to pass this on to you - i love the sound of the Nord's AP- i asked someone who had posted audio demos about it. He was actually a stage 2 owner and told me he felt the velocity response was set way too fast for acoustic piano on the stage 2- probably to accomodate the organ/ synth playability. therefore he was using a different controller to access the Stage 2's AP's for recording- in order to get a slower, heavier velocity response. (that really turned me off as to wanting a stage 2)...

so you should really determine what your reason to own would be, and if its just to play piano- the piano 88 might be better suited and its certainly a lot less money. but that is just an observation on my part and i defer to owners of both/either.

Yeah Bruce, the Nord's velocity response, which has four settings on the Nord Piano, don't know for the Stage 2, and the default setting is the 'heaviest' as it were. I've found it to be a little too light even on the heaviest setting, which like a said is the default. If it had one or two more settings, it would be awesome. As it stands now, the NP88 is still one of the most responsive DPs I've played/owned.

Nah, I felt it too. The NP is a tad more solid with maybe a little heavier action. The Stage felt more synthy and less substantial to me.

Similar, but not as dramatic, in comparing the Balanced action of the Yamaha Motif/S90s to the Graded actions of the P series stage pianos.

Dave,

I just listened to your Groovin' High recording on the NP88 over at Soundcloud and it sounds really good. The Nord behaves very acoustically through a recording. That was definitely the Grand Lady D wasn't it? It sounds much better than the CP5, but on In Your Own Sweet Way they're about equal to me, with me leaning toward the NP88 still. I believe that's the Studio Grand 2 C7 on that one. The CP5, just like all the Yamahas I've owned, including my N1, have that classic boxed in digital, short decay sound during short punching comping. You can hear the sympathetic resonance on the Nord which I think really helps the helps. The CP5 does sound really good though. And the CP5 has much better action! Wish the CP5 action was inside the NP88...

Hey Zac, thanks man.

That's funny. Again it shows how everyone hears these things completely differently. For me, I liked the CP5 with the drum track. It sounded richer and less compressed then the Nord. I definitely felt the playing was better with the Yamaha, more musical and expressive---because of its sound & action.

It was the Grand Lady D on GH, but as I've mentioned several times in previous threads where I posted this, I screwed up the recording by not panning the NP right and left, thus the sound isn't a full stereo image like with the CP5.

On IYOSW I definitely preferred the Nord Piano for solo. It sounds a little thinner in certain registers then the Yamaha, but more realistic and certainly a cooler type vibe going for it.

I'm definitely keeping the CP5. Have to decide again on a lightweight live board. It was going to be a slam dunk for the NP but now I'm considering saving the dough and just going with a P155b.

If it were for recording, the NP would be the choice hands down but live I still have my doubts regarding taming its idiosyncrasies through my gigging speakers.

In any case, I'm trying to sell some old Camco drums to fund the purchase so I'm not in a big hurry.

Did you you hear this fellow Sebastion/Cee's recording of the Grand Lady D over on the Nord forum ? It's over an Aebersold. To me it sounds much more flattering then my Groovin' High GLD recording. Really no *harpsichordy* thing going on at all.

http://www.box.net/shared/mi16lh2qf422l147ip27

He got the panning right. The moral of this almost story is--never record something at the end of a long day of teaching and rehearsals.

Just to return to the original topic for a moment, I also found the NS2 action far lighter than the NP88. When the Stage 2 came out I wondered whether I should bite the bullet and trade up but I don't think I'd be happy with it for long-term solo piano work.

Although I've found before now that aftertouch sensors can radically alter a keybed's feel, in this case I don't think they're to blame. I believe it's established that Nord now customise these Fatar actions when they arrive, so they've probably just altered the weighting to be a better compromise for organ/synth stuff.

Anyway, the GAS has gone for the Stage 2 right now, especially as I've just spent a wedge of cash on a used XLK3 lower manual for my Hammond.



Dave, that's a nice recording you linked to. I must revisit the Grand Lady D - at the moment it's not on my Nord as I'm mostly using the Bosie or Bright Grand live. The Grand Imperial needs careful equalisation but sounds great in solo settings, the Bright Grand is my "goto" for band gigs.

Great setup Aidan!

James
x

Thanks James! Yeah, I feel I've pretty got all the bases covered now for whatever job:

Solo piano: Nord
My jazz and blues band: Nord + Hammond top manual
Function band depping: Nord + Kurz or Kurz + Hammond
Future organ trio project: XK System

It feels like I've got to the point where I've pretty much got "best of breed" in all areas, so my GAS is now shifting towards better PA and stuff LOL - it has to go somewhere, I guess!

Wow Dave, Sebastian's recording sounds really authentic. That'd be tough for anyone without seriously trained ears. That's the best I've probably ever heard a digital piano sound. Thanks for the link.


+1! Great set up Aidan. Also, on topic, interesting you found the action on the Stage 2 to be so much lighter. I think your intuitions in regard to Nord adjusting the action to cater more for organ/synth playing seems to make sense. I say, for those who want a solid piano for gigging, the NP88 is the choice to beat.

Well they are different instruments designed for different markets. If all you want to do is play piano then there is no point in having a stage and if you want to play organ/synth/control something then the piano isn't really going to work well.
Action is of course a very personal thing so you may take what I say with a pinch of salt but I quite like the action on the stage. It is well too light of course but I am finding it pretty good for piano playing especially now I am getting used to it. There are better actions out there but there are no better actions at this weight I think (the 76 weighs 16.5kg).
Actually I would probably have got the piano but the lack of a pitch bend and mod was the deal breaker for me.
But I do not regret getting the stage in the slightest. The interface is just fantastic, so great for quickly adjusting and changing sounds. I love it.
The only thing that I really wish is that there was better control over the velocity curve as, coming from a board with a heavier action, the higher velocity samples are reached a bit too early for me. The positive side of the light action is that it is really really easy to play fast.

Good overview beeboss. I think actions are the same on both but Nord more than likely made some adjustments to the Stage 2 to make it more friendly for other keyboard work. Do you have a Stage 2? I didn't singer time on the 88 and it was a monster board. Ask of the sounds were absolutely top notch.

Just a note, but the Nord Piano doesn't have a pitch bend/mod wheel because it only is capable of acoustic piano oriented instruments, so there's no real use.

Yes I have a NS2.
Pitch bend/mod would have been very useful for me on the nord piano because although I normally play piano sometimes I like to control modules/laptop. I don't require sophisticated midi control stuff but pitch bend and mod is the minimum I need. I only want to use one board so it has to do that, hence I had to choose the NS2 over the piano.

Thank you all for the answers.

I have been reading this forum for months now to find out, which digital piano I should buy, and I have come up with a conclusion, that in a way surprises myself !

To begin with, I quickly liked the Roland RD-700NX and the Yamaha CP5, and i have been listening to sound samples of these two and many others for the last few months.

Now I think, the SuperNatural sound of the Roland is not really natural compared to the sounds from the Nord Piano Library, and the same applies to the sounds from the Yamaha CP5 as well.
Another drawback of the CP5 is the complicated user interface, which may shift the focus from learning to play the piano to learning how to program it !

So i really like the Nord sounds, and then I wanted to find out, if it was an idea to get everything in one box,- the Stage 2, or just get the Nord Piano. Hence my question about keyboard action on the Nords.

And in order to achieve my goal of learning to play piano properly my conclusion is, that it might be best to select the Nord Piano, which have (in my opinion) wonderful piano- as well as electric piano sounds, and not much else.
It means no 2-300 other sounds, layers and effects to play around with, and so what, I can always buy another keyboard later, that can do all this stuff. the most important to me is playing the piano.

What do you think, a good conclusion, or ?

One question to Nord Piano owners:
which stand is good, the original EX from Clavia: http://www.thomann.de/de/clavia_nord_stage_keyboard_stand.htm

or perhaps one like this: http://www.thomann.de/de/km_18953.htm

Best regards

If budget were not an issue, even just for piano playing, I'd lean toward the Stage 2 over the Nord Piano, because the Stage 2 has the new "long release" function which makes the pianos sound/play better. The fact that you can play so many other sounds, split and layer sounds, etc. is a bonus. ;-) However, I can't speak to whether the action feels any different.

Though also, based on playing the Stage 2 which is at least similar if not identical to the NP, and playing the Roland FP-7F which is likewise similar to the RD-700NX you liked, I feel confident in saying that the RD-700NX, FP-7F, and Yamaha CP5 all have better feeling actions than the Nords. Like you, though, I prefer Nord's sound to Roland. (I wasn't able to hear the CP5 in a good enough environment to feel I can offer an opinion on how it sounds relative to the others. But so much of this is subjective anyway...)

As for the CP5 interface... I think if you use it ONLY to play piano--i.e. the way you would use a Nord Piano anyway--and so don't get into all the other things it can do, then you probably don't have to worry much about complexity.

To be totally honest North, if you're worried about technique and learning to play the piano, both the Nord Piano and Stage 2 aren't adequate for that. You'd be best off going with the RD-700NX, and check out the Kawai MP10 as well which has a superb action for piano, and to me sounds better than the CP5 and as good as the RD-700NX.

If you've got the budget to buy the Nord Stage 2, if I were you, I'd get the Nord Piano and a good controller keyboard for it's action, say the Yamaha CP33 or P155 for $999 and use it to control the Nord sounds. Then you get the benefits of the Nord Piano Library but a better action. Is this piano for gigging or more for home use? The Nord Piano is targeted much more for gigging hence the straight forward use interface, and the compromised action. It's lightweight which means the action isn't as good as the CP5, RD-700NX, or MP10. If this is mostly for just piano, also look at the Roland FP-7F.

Even better, perhaps... instead of the Nord Piano, get a Nord Electro 3, it has almost the same piano sounds. If you're going to be driving it from another controller anyway, the action and lack of full 88 keys on an Electro doesn't matter. The Electro will be cheaper and provide a whole lot of other sounds and capabilities (plus give you something very portable if you ever happen to need it). What you'd lose is the ability to load in as many different piano sounds at once (they have less RAM), and you couldn't use the very largest of the Nord piano samples (the two "XL" versions they have), and you don't have the added other-keys-down damper resonance. OTOH, the HP model of the E3 has the long release feature that the Nord Piano doesn't have. So there are pros and cons to each combination...

this piano is mainly for home use, and I know, that the piano is more targeted for gigging, but Nord does not have any pianos specifically for home use, and still, - I really like the Nord sounds.

But Zachary, do you mean, that it´s impossible to learn piano-playing on the Nord piano because of the compromised action ?

Bear in mind, that what I want to achieve, is to be fair on playing the piano. Of course I want to be as good as possible, but I don't imagine to become a piano super star any time soon.
I hope, you understand what I mean, since english is not my native language.

Best regards