Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Listening to records of pieces you're learning: good or bad?

You may have different standard than most people here then. If, for example, you can play a Chopin etude only at 120, yet the standard is 150. Most people will not satisfy till they get close to the normal speed of 150. In your case, however, you will accept that 120 is your interpretation for the piece and you like it for whatever reason. If it is your standard, I do totally agree that you will have hard time to find any of your interpretation is not acceptable or bother you. I think it is good to have an accepting attitude like yours. There is no need to compare to any other performance.

Don't be too impressed - you'd probably be more amazed at the vast amounts of stuff I can't remember that most people seem to. But I do have a few scattered but fairly vivid musical memories from early years - most musicians have that experience, don't they? For example, from around the same time as that Clementi memory, I can remember bits and pieces from some of Bernstein's Young People's Concerts on television (these days, it is hard to imagine that those programs even existed, much less on prime time network television).

I'm not just talking about a misread note, although I think it would be incredibly rare for someone not to misread a note, a rest, or anything else marked in the score over many years.

I'm talking about a musical error as in a wrong musical decision. I've seen around 150 master classes at Mannes over a long period. The students are usually from top conservatories yet much of what the teachers point out to them are what I would call musical errors. By this I mean musical decisions they've made (consciously or not) that are basically wrong(the teachers almost always give compelling reasons for what they tell the student).

So unless you are a professional pianist at a level far beyond these students I think you're fooling yourself if you think you haven't made these kinds of errors...the very type of thing one might learn from listening to a great pianist's performance.

The great pianists were virtually all great in terms of technique and musical understanding. Are you saying your musicianship is on a par with those pianists and it's only your technique that makes your playing of a lesser quality compared to them? Your musical understanding is so high you have nothing to learn from them?

...and in black and white !!!!!

Yup, I knew you were heading towards this axe you are always grinding. I'm not interested in it.

Any pianist advanced enough to play Mozart and Beethoven Sonatas should be able, at a glance, to tell the very distinct differences between the two "on paper." Anyone who thinks they look the same doesn't know much about either style, it would seem to me.

Regards,

Scandalous, isn't it, that a wretched amateur with feeble technique could imagine having decent musicianship...

"Decent" is not how I would describe the musicianship of the great pianists or even first year conservatory students.

I listen..especially if it is a challenging composition. Not from the beginning, but after I have worked on a piece to some extent.. I listen to how, say, Richter voices his chords, builds the overall architecture of the piece, where he breathes.. I learn tons. It is humbling and I (think) I may be a better musician, or at least a better listener for it. I don't do this regularly. I also do not make a conscious effort to mimick (not that I could sound like Richter if I wanted to). I agree that subconsciously I may be copying something I heard. But with some self-discipline, the listening ends up heightening my awareness of the intricacies of the piece.
I also listen if I am working on a challenging duet, often because I am too lazy or do not have enough time to learn the other part..
Teacher does not like it, out of principle.. But he does not hesitate to tell me how he thinks it should sound, one way or another..

BTW, van CLiburn recently discussed how he listens to several versions of a concerto he is working on during an interview at the recent Tchaikovsky competition.. It may even be online still.
We are so immersed in music thanks to digital media that it is hard to imagine that a musicophile has not listened (repeatedly) to mainstream repertoire.. I think the point is a bit moot.. unless one is listening to see "how the notes go" because of a deficient technique/fundamentals.. Then they would have no business working on a piece that is good enough to have been recorded by someone..

I think you may be projecting something onto what I wrote that isn't really what I am talking about. Although finding an appropriate tempo is very important, getting a piece up to some speed that's in the range of most professional performances is not usually a big part of what I think of as "interpretation". That is more of a technical issue (I know, this may sound contradictory, but it really isn't).

But, on the other hand, if I think a fast piece must be up to a certain speed in order to sound right, I will get it up into that range before I think I can really play it properly. There was a little discussion about this here a few months back, in regard to Weber's Perpetual Motion, which is one of those pieces I think really must go pretty fast or else is just not right (Mark C. thought sheer speed was less important than I did).

Oh, me too!

Dear pal Ronald,
If you think that has even the tiniest relevance to the subject at hand, you misunderstand it.

Yup -- that's exactly what we mean too.

I didn't think it was that subtle, but I guess it is. We're seeing stuff like, "Wouldn't you be able to weigh it and decide," and "How can you say that you can't learn from other people's performances," and "But I saw you listening to people play" -- none of which have much to do with what we're talking about, and some of which have nothing to do with it.

By mentioning this with the smiley I guess you see the obvious contradiction.

Exactly.

Can you give me one specific example? What musical errors? What happens in masterclasses, more often than not, teachers will present suggestions (and suggestions only) related to the work. Most times it's related to how THEY view and play the piece and has nothing to do with it being "right" or "wrong"...... With stuff like that, there a thousand ways to do something. The question is finding what works for you, and of course staying true to the score (depending on the work). Students need to learn how to think for themselves, to be able to make musical desicions (even if they're blatantly "wrong") and have reasons for them, rather than being spoonfed by recordings. It's much more difficult but it builds you as a musician. Interpreting something isn't a piece of cake, it can be mentally exhausting, but yeah, why not turn that recording and copy what they do....

My god, I know exactly what you're talking about... I have a similar story, and whenever I tell it no one believes me (until those with good ears hear it)

Since you and WR have such great ears (and memories to know whom they were copying), you should probably never listen to another recording....ever! And don't learn anything you've already heard.

HHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

you're missing the point.. sorry