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Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: Eglantine] #1725767
08/03/11 09:14 AM
08/03/11 09:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,420
Dallas, TX
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member
packa  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,420
Dallas, TX
Originally Posted by Eglantine
At the beginning of bar 23, my two editions each show a different note in the left hand: in the Verlag, it's E; in Classic Piano Collection ed. John Vallier, pub Cramer Music, it's D.

The Bach Gesellschaft Ausgabe version on IMSLP shows E (admittedly not the latest scholarship). Palmer's version in the Alfred edition of the Little Preludes claims to be based on a re-examination of the original sources and also shows E. I'm not at the library today to check the Neue Bach Ausgabe. E makes sense to me with the C# in the other voice.


Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718
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Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: packa] #1725812
08/03/11 10:47 AM
08/03/11 10:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013
Eglantine  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Thanks, packa. That's amazingly useful input. Thankfully this item is in the section I haven't yet started to memorise, so the error is not ingrained in my brain.

It's clearly useful to compare sources before learning a piece! And perhaps worthwhile me recovering some music theory. (I passed UK Grade V theory as a teenager, but that was over three decades ago and the best part of it has vanished into the ether.)


Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)
[Linked Image]
Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: packa] #1725822
08/03/11 10:56 AM
08/03/11 10:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013
Eglantine  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Originally Posted by packa
Originally Posted by Eglantine
I'm slightly confused by the term Little Preludes, as the Verlag book I have contains four different sets of them, with the same numbers (1-6, 1- 1-7 etc.)... Thanks for the recommendation on 941.

Here's part of Williard Palmer's explanation of the origins of the pieces usually called Little Preludes or, sometimes, Short Preludes (from J. S. Bach: 18 Short Preludes for the Keyboard (2nd ed.), Alfred Publishing, 1992):

"The Twelve Short Preludes were first collected and published in the middle of the 19th century by F. K. Griepenkerl, who arranged them in ascending order of keys. . . . The Six Short Preludes were first published by Hoffmeister and Kühnel, edited by J. N. Forkey."

These pieces were not composed by Bach as a set. Seven of them are from the Clavier-Büchlein vor Wilhelm Fridemann Bach. The others are apparently preserved only in copies from some of Bach's friends and students. The Alfred/Palmer edition follows the historical publishing precedent by presenting them as a set of twelve followed by a set of six.


Thanks for the background, packa. There are clearly several sets and/or collections... which makes it all the more confusing when some refers to 'number 4' or similar, as there are clearly - for example - several number 4's.


Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)
[Linked Image]
Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: Eglantine] #1725837
08/03/11 11:21 AM
08/03/11 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,420
Dallas, TX
packa Offline
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packa  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,420
Dallas, TX
Originally Posted by packa
The Bach Gesellschaft Ausgabe version on IMSLP shows E (admittedly not the latest scholarship). Palmer's version in the Alfred edition of the Little Preludes claims to be based on a re-examination of the original sources and also shows E. I'm not at the library today to check the Neue Bach Ausgabe. E makes sense to me with the C# in the other voice.


Sorry for the sloppy writing in my previous post. The editions I consulted showed Eb of course (not just E).

Last edited by packa; 08/03/11 04:14 PM. Reason: Wrong quote

Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718
Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: tangleweeds] #1725844
08/03/11 11:38 AM
08/03/11 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,363
Portland, OR
tangleweeds Offline OP

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012
tangleweeds  Offline OP

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,363
Portland, OR
From Wikipedia:
Quote
Little Preludes from Clavier-Büchlein for Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (924–932)

* BWV 924 — Prelude in C major
* BWV 924a — Prelude in C major (alternative version of BWV 924)
* BWV 925 — Prelude in D major
* BWV 926 — Prelude in D minor
* BWV 927 — Praeambulum in F major
* BWV 928 — Prelude in F major
* BWV 929 — Prelude in G minor
* BWV 930 — Prelude in G minor
* BWV 931 — Prelude in A minor
* BWV 932 — Prelude in E minor

Six Little Preludes (933–938)

* BWV 933 — Little Prelude in C major
* BWV 934 — Little Prelude in C minor
* BWV 935 — Little Prelude in D minor
* BWV 936 — Little Prelude in D major
* BWV 937 — Little Prelude in E major
* BWV 938 — Little Prelude in E minor

Five Preludes from the collection of Johann Peter Kellner (939–943)
* BWV 939 — Prelude in C major
* BWV 940 — Prelude in D minor
* BWV 941 — Prelude in E minor
* BWV 942 — Prelude in A minor
* BWV 943 — Prelude in C major

So which of these are in the Alfred's edition? It seems to lack BWV numbers...

The ABRSM edition describes itself thus:
"Eighteen Little Preludes BWV 924-8, 930, 933-43 & 999"
Why does it omit some of the above?

Last edited by tangleweeds; 08/03/11 11:39 AM.

Please step aside. You're standing in your own way.
Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: tangleweeds] #1725855
08/03/11 11:55 AM
08/03/11 11:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013
Eglantine  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
For the sake of comparison, the Henle Verlag edition includes:

BWV 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 930, 931 (Kleine Praludien fur W. Fr. Bach)
BWV 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938 (Sechs kleine Praludien)
BWV 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 999 (Sechs kleine Praludien)
BWV 961, 952, 953, 902a, 902, 899, 900, 895 (preludes and fugues)

Agreed, without BWV numbers we are all at sea, and am surprised a publisher doesn't include.


Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)
[Linked Image]
Re: Bach's Little Preludes [Re: packa] #1726392
08/04/11 07:03 AM
08/04/11 07:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013
Eglantine  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 804
Another Country
Originally Posted by packa
Originally Posted by packa
The Bach Gesellschaft Ausgabe version on IMSLP shows E (admittedly not the latest scholarship). Palmer's version in the Alfred edition of the Little Preludes claims to be based on a re-examination of the original sources and also shows E. I'm not at the library today to check the Neue Bach Ausgabe. E makes sense to me with the C# in the other voice.


Sorry for the sloppy writing in my previous post. The editions I consulted showed Eb of course (not just E).


I tried it out with the Eb this morning: nice, another twist to the mood. (And I should have said Eb in my original post.)

I love this piece, but I think it's going to be a little trickier memorising the second page than the first. I'm wondering why it's sinking in more slowly: I know every bar, but it's proving less easy to link them together.


Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)
[Linked Image]
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